Oh why not fix it Dave?

[darmstadt]

You start from the premise the immigrant worker should be here. That is the crux of the matter, some contend we don't need more large scale immigration to supply cheaper workers but selective migration of the best to build the economy.

Surprising contractors find such a concept difficult, get a few good men rather than hire droves of people.

The good ones don't really want to come and if they do then they're still undercutting homegrown talent and that homegrown talent has spent thousands of pounds of taxpayers money studying at university only to find out that an immigrant has taken the job they wanted so you now have an underclass of well educated people whose only recourse is to unskilled labour or benefits. Now, instead of that why not invite the unskilled immigrants who will be happy to do those jobs as they'll earn more than at home and educate the locals to provide a skilled workforce?

[MicrosoftBob]

What tax would that be ? Begging tax ? car wash tax ? Child prostitute tax ? One stringed guitar busker tax ?

Or maybe 'job at less than min wage and under the tax threshold' tax ?

See any flaws in your argument ?

Gypsies, tramps and thieves a Cher classic

[d000hg]

How silly of me, of course all Romanians are beggars, thieves or prostitutes.

Prehaps you could post some statistics to back that up.

Says more about the people he hangs about with.

[vetran]

The good ones don't really want to come and if they do then they're still undercutting homegrown talent and that homegrown talent has spent thousands of pounds of taxpayers money studying at university only to find out that an immigrant has taken the job they wanted so you now have an underclass of well educated people whose only recourse is to unskilled labour or benefits. Now, instead of that why not invite the unskilled immigrants who will be happy to do those jobs as they'll earn more than at home and educate the locals to provide a skilled workforce?

who says we need unskilled labour? We have millions of people we pay to be idle. We have jobs that anyone can do being filled by people willing to be paid less than the locals so there is no reason for the locals to do them.

There is a surplus of unskilled and semi skilled workers which is allowing employers to run roughshod over their employees. Hence zero hour contracts and wage freezes.

There is a surplus of unemployed who are paid more to sit at home than they can earn.

we don't need more cheap willing workers we need to move people off benefits into work and make jobs more available so wages rise.

[original PM]

Gypsies, tramps and thieves a Cher classic

Beat me to it!

But on another note my understanding of beneifts is that in general they are temporary support for people who need it.

In some circumstances that benefit may become permanent.

But it just seems wrong to come to a country, start working and then go an look to claim benefits for people 2000 miles away - I mean ignoring the fact we have no idea if these people exists or not?

[vetran]

Beat me to it!

But on another note my understanding of beneifts is that in general they are temporary support for people who need it.

In some circumstances that benefit may become permanent.

But it just seems wrong to come to a country, start working and then go an look to claim benefits for people 2000 miles away - I mean ignoring the fact we have no idea if these people exists or not?

You can't blame the individuals taking advantage. If someone offered you £75K - £125K a year to wait tables in a country with free health care and school education where you can learn the dominant business language wouldn't you seriously consider doing it? If their government gives you an extra £10-20k as benefits a year you would be stupid not to.

These guys may well go back and buy houses outright but our young won't get a look in and employers will abuse the availability of labour to drive down wages & conditions.

[doodab]

who says we need unskilled labour? We have millions of people we pay to be idle. We have jobs that anyone can do being filled by people willing to be paid less than the locals so there is no reason for the locals to do them.

There is a surplus of unskilled and semi skilled workers which is allowing employers to run roughshod over their employees. Hence zero hour contracts and wage freezes.

There is a surplus of unemployed who are paid more to sit at home than they can earn.

we don't need more cheap willing workers we need to move people off benefits into work and make jobs more available so wages rise.

One problem is that business doesn't want, or cannot afford, to pay what British workers demand, so we need to ship in people willing to work for the minimum wage to keep business happy. Being seen as anti-business has historically made parties unelectable so it's just not going to happen without a bit of a sea change.

The other problem is usefulness. There are, without doubt, some people who are so ******* useless that they cannot do the jobs that "anyone can do" and there is little else for it but to pay them to stay out of the way. Unfortunately we can only fit so many of them into the house of commons and so the rest need to go on the dole. Perhaps if we introduced a "useless wasters allowance" this would make it's true purpose clearer.

[vetran]

One problem is that business doesn't want, or cannot afford, to pay what British workers demand, so we need to ship in people willing to work for the minimum wage to keep business happy. Being seen as anti-business has historically made parties unelectable so it's just not going to happen without a bit of a sea change.

The other problem is usefulness. There are, without doubt, some people who are so ******* useless that they cannot do the jobs that "anyone can do" and there is little else for it but to pay them to stay out of the way. Unfortunately we can only fit so many of them into the house of commons and so the rest need to go on the dole. Perhaps if we introduced a "useless wasters allowance" this would make it's true purpose clearer.

do you know any unemployed people or people on benefits?

[MicrosoftBob]

do you know any unemployed people or people on benefits?

Does the Royal Family or Royale Family count ?

[doodab]

do you know any unemployed people or people on benefits?

I know a few working people on benefits. Including me, but I don't really count.

I try not to associate with the truly unemployable any more. I grew up among them, that was enough for me.