Oh why not fix it Dave?

[darmstadt]

Good then let us pay them nothing

How do you know you're paying them anything? There are no figures to prove this

[xoggoth]

This figure is pretty much something pulled out of the air by the papers

You could well be right and the figure is overstated. However, I would say it is an important principle that we should not be paying benefits to non citizens unless they have previously made a significant contribution to our tax/NI that at least covers the cost. You get the same argument about exaggeration when the Mail mentions asylum seekers in expensive properties. They may not be typical cases but it should not happen at all.

The way to stop these thing being mentioned is to put in place rules that stop them happening, ever.

[BlasterBates]

There are 2 million Brits living elsewhere in the EU eligible for the same sort of benefits. Then there are the Brits working in Europe who have their families in the UK.

Sure you can change the rules, but so what, it doesn't achieve anything other than to make working abroad more awkward, because you are disadvantaged when you work cross border.

The EU rules level the playing field so that anyone working cross border isn't disadvantaged by doing so.

[BlasterBates]

Good then let us pay them nothing

Nigel Farage says we should be like Switzerland or Norway, and they've signed up to the same rules, so it seems like a rather pointless discussion because even UKIP agree with it.

It's a key principle to have access to the EU market.

[xoggoth]

Sure you can change the rules, but so what, it doesn't achieve anything other than to make working abroad more awkward, because you are disadvantaged when you work cross border.

Good point. If arrangements are roughly reciprocal there should be no problem with them.

We should perhaps question if they really are with respect to Eastern European countries. How many Brits are claiming benefits in Hungary or Romania I wonder? Perhaps it not the EU rules that are the problem but the idea that they should be applied to new members until such time as their standard of living is more in line with those of the existing ones.

Actually, this is not purely an EU issue. List of reciprocal arrangements here. What the exact details are is unclear.

https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-ab...claim-benefits

Doubt much of it is really reciprocal. Just looked at one example, Bosnia and Herzogovina. Their citizens here get free "Hospital treatment. Some dental treatment, Other medical treatment". British citizens there have to take out health insurance. No wonder people are getting fed up with this.

[BlasterBates]

But you think about it Romanians are paying tax in the UK and the Romania pays for the health care, and education as well as all the publice services for the family. So the Romanians are funding services and the UK is getting the tax. Sure there is the child benefit but that is a tax rebate.

Now if the family was in the UK it would cost the UK more because they would have to pay for all the services, so there would be a net cost to the UK tax payer.

i.e. a Romanian with his family in Romania will contribute more to the UK finances than a Romanian with his family in the UK.

[darmstadt]

Doubt much of it is really reciprocal. Just looked at one example, Bosnia and Herzogovina. Their citizens here get free "Hospital treatment. Some dental treatment, Other medical treatment". British citizens there have to take out health insurance. No wonder people are getting fed up with this.

Which is weird as Bosnia and Herzegovina are not full members of the EU and is currently only a candidate. This means it must be a UK government decision to allow this

[darmstadt]

As for me, if I went to Bosnia and Herzegovina then my German social contributions would cover me (although extra insurance is recommended.) Perhaps, once again, its a UK government decision

[TestMangler]

But you think about it Romanians are paying tax in the UK and the Romania pays for the health care, and education as well as all the publice services for the family. So the Romanians are funding services and the UK is getting the tax. Sure there is the child benefit but that is a tax rebate.

Now if the family was in the UK it would cost the UK more because they would have to pay for all the services, so there would be a net cost to the UK tax payer.

i.e. a Romanian with his family in Romania will contribute more to the UK finances than a Romanian with his family in the UK.

What tax would that be ? Begging tax ? car wash tax ? Child prostitute tax ? One stringed guitar busker tax ?

Or maybe 'job at less than min wage and under the tax threshold' tax ?

See any flaws in your argument ?

[BlasterBates]

What tax would that be ? Begging tax ? car wash tax ? Child prostitute tax ? One stringed guitar busker tax ?

Or maybe 'job at less than min wage and under the tax threshold' tax ?

See any flaws in your argument ?

How silly of me, of course all Romanians are beggars, thieves or prostitutes.

Prehaps you could post some statistics to back that up.