Oh why not fix it Dave?

[lilelvis2000]

I often wonder about immigration controls - are they a socialist invention. Because in capitalism you would not need them, or would you?

Would the world be better off without controls at all. That way people who really do want to live somewhere else..where they know they could get a job...could just go.

This mid-life crisis stuff is real isn't it?

[original PM]

One problem is that business doesn't want, or cannot afford, to pay what British workers demand, so we need to ship in people willing to work for the minimum wage to keep business happy. Being seen as anti-business has historically made parties unelectable so it's just not going to happen without a bit of a sea change.

The other problem is usefulness. There are, without doubt, some people who are so ******* useless that they cannot do the jobs that "anyone can do" and there is little else for it but to pay them to stay out of the way. Unfortunately we can only fit so many of them into the house of commons and so the rest need to go on the dole. Perhaps if we introduced a "useless wasters allowance" this would make it's true purpose clearer.

Thing is people need to see flipping burgers and waiting tables as jobs - jobs for the unskilled/students etc who just want to earn some money - they are not career paths and as such do not expect regular reviews and yearly payrise. They are a stop gap while you get trained to do something which will earn more money.


And as usual yes we have some lazy feckers who could do the job but refuse to - we have had the discussion so many times - stop any benefits and let them starve.

[VectraMan]

I often wonder about immigration controls - are they a socialist invention. Because in capitalism you would not need them, or would you?

It's interesting that the left wing politicians tend to be more pro-immigration, and the anti-immigration rhetoric tends to come from the right. Yet it's the workers that the left wing are meant to represent that are the ones that fear immigration costing them jobs, whereas you'd think the more pro-capitalist right wing would just want as many cheap workers for their factories as they can get.

IIRC we had no immigration controls at all until after WWI, and I guess the country did okay before that.

[vetran]

It's interesting that the left wing politicians tend to be more pro-immigration, and the anti-immigration rhetoric tends to come from the right. Yet it's the workers that the left wing are meant to represent that are the ones that fear immigration costing them jobs, whereas you'd think the more pro-capitalist right wing would just want as many cheap workers for their factories as they can get.

IIRC we had no immigration controls at all until after WWI, and I guess the country did okay before that.

only the rich and very determined were able to travel? Also there was no benefit system you swam or sank.

Some of the right wing capitalists want immigration, the right wing workers realise its foolish. The left wing ruling class want to rub the right wing's nose in it and gerrymander, some of the left wing workers can see they will be shafted.

[speling bee]

only the rich and very determined were able to travel? Also there was no benefit system you swam or sank.

Some of the right wing capitalists want immigration, the right wing workers realise its foolish. The left wing ruling class want to rub the right wing's nose in it and gerrymander, some of the left wing workers can see they will be shafted.

You missed the capitalist class's right-wing strategy of divide and rule (using racism, xenophobia, homophobia, 'traditional values') to persuade a segment of the working class to support a political system that is not in their economic interests.

[VectraMan]

only the rich and very determined were able to travel? Also there was no benefit system you swam or sank.

It wasn't just the rich Irish that emmigrated en masse to the US, and there certainly were no benefits waiting for them.

Probably the reason immigration to Britain wasn't a big problem is that the people of Britain were just as poor, miserable and oppressed as everybody else.

[vetran]

You missed the capitalist class's right-wing strategy of divide and rule (using racism, xenophobia, homophobia, 'traditional values') to persuade a segment of the working class to support a political system that is not in their economic interests.

you think Labour are the alternative?

Vote UKIP!

[speling bee]

you think Labour are the alternative?

Vote UKIP!

They are all *******.

[vetran]

It wasn't just the rich Irish that emmigrated en masse to the US, and there certainly were no benefits waiting for them.

Probably the reason immigration to Britain wasn't a big problem is that the people of Britain were just as poor, miserable and oppressed as everybody else.

Those that emigrated had enough for their fare which was a significant amount even in steerage.

there weren't the pull factors, and the push factors were the grinding poverty in the UK compared to free land for everyone in the US.

[speling bee]

Those that emigrated had enough for their fare which was a significant amount even in steerage.

They didn't typically pay their own fares. Landlords would often pay to stop them being a 'local problem'.