Iran's 60 year war against Israel

[AlfredJPruffock]

How on earth is a peace treaty going to work if Iran, Syria, and their proxy terrorists want to destroy Israel?

The first step is to give Palestine its own statehood in coexistance with the state of Israel, that would take away the ammunition from the extremists in Iran whom as you say are benefiting from the suffering of this situation and would demonstrate to the world that Israel is for Peace and coexistance.

Remember that before Iran was included in the axis of evil Iran had been moderate in its policy, however the invasion of Iraq has made the Iranians more powerful in the region and at the same time more paranoid of being attacked themselves.

Secondly to stop the proliferation problem,there has to be a genuine nuclear free Middle East.

[AlfredJPruffock]

don't hold your breath...

I know its hard to be optimistic, but South Africa abandoned their Nuclear program and Libya aborted its quest for WMDs too.

Not easy I know but if the political will is there then it can be done, after all , what is the alternative ...

[Fungus]

Anyone who thinks that Israel would abandon its nuclear weapons is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. It is the one thing that guarantees its survival, and makes it a global player to be taken seriously.

[Fungus]

So I repeat that there are no grounds for conciliation unless hezbollah is beaten or Iran/Syria decide to co-exist with Israel. Once that is achieved then maybe Israel can be pressured to return some of its land, and everyone can live happily ever after

It is really Janet and John stuff.

You really don't have a clue do you? There is only one reason Israel is surrendering some land, and that is demographics. They cannot absorb millions of muslims and remain a Jewish state with laws that give extra rights to Jews.

Israel don't give a flying feck what the rest of the world thinks. Why should they? They were formed by a mixed group of freedom fighters and terrorists. After the Holocaust, Europe was littered with Jewish survivers. They did not want to return home, for obvious reasons, and the world ignored them. So many went to Palestine to fight for a homeland. The fact that they won the first Arab-Israeli war is amazing as the rest of the world would not support them. They don't trust anyone. Who can blame them.

Most of the Israelis I have spoken to say "We beat the Arabs, that land is ours" and "That land was given to us by God.".

It's hard to believe you can be so naive.

[NickIT]

Anyone who thinks that Israel would abandon its nuclear weapons is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. It is the one thing that guarantees its survival, and makes it a global player to be taken seriously.

What would happen to Isreal or any other nation that used nukes against another nation?

[Fungus]

I dont really know where your hysterical ramblings come from Fungus. Obviously I am quite naive to think that Israel wants peace, that its democratically elected government that is answerable to its people simply has imperialistic ambitions to conquer the whole of the middle East. This is not reported as such in any of the broadsheets or the economist or any other publication other than maybe the Mirror.

I have set in what I think are fairly eloquent terms why I think Iran has no intention of allowing Israel to survive as an independent state. I am even quite happy to agree with you that the Israelis are very cunning, infact maybe cunning enough to realise that conquering Iran is beyond their means and that Bush only has a short time left in office and that they will need to continue to convince the US public that they are worthy of their support.

Maybe I am missing something here, in which case your hysterical rant does little to explain what it is. I am happy to concede where I am wrong (ask Alf) simply because I am interested in solutions to the crisis. You give the impression that this whole conflict is there to support a particular "set in stone bone in the nose view" for which you will argue come what may.

If I have misunderstood the dynamics of what is going on out there I am open to logical opinions, logically argued and politely put. After all I have never been to the middle East and nor do I know anyone who lives there. Your understanding would be appreciated

Otherwise F*** off and die you bearded little loser.

I was going to ramble on about the politics of the regions, but what the hell. There are loads of books that you can read if you want. And if you still disagree with me, well so be it.

All I will say is that I have been shocked at the death and destruction wrought by Israel. They have killed hundreds of innocent people, injured perhaps thousands, terrified and terrorised hundreds of thousands, bombed homes, buildings, roads, an airport etc. FFS why?

Speaking as someone who has argued for a strong Israel, I now find it hard to consider them as anything more than modern day Nazis.

PS are you Melanie Phillips?

[Fungus]

[QUOTE=NickIT]

I would suspect it has something to do with Whabbism...

I've never liked that. Sushi only needs pickled ginger and Japanese soya sauce.

[Fungus]

What would happen to Isreal or any other nation that used nukes against another nation?

America used nukes against Japan, arguing that it saved millions of Allied lives as the Japanese were fighting to the death, island by island. I happen to agree.

[sappatz]

article

excellent article (a bit simplistic as others have said, like the 60 years)

any serious observer will admit that the iranian regime is on a collision course with the west and it has shown provocation upon provocation up to now in its dealings, even with the UN.
there is 0% margin for negociation as nuclear negocations have shown. Western nations have even been insulted frequently (i dont even speak of the frequent shows in the streets)

this diversion in lebanon could be forecasted. however the iranians mollah are not that clever since hezbollah is clearly associated with them.
Syria and Iran hope to reap the rewards but the situation could backfire. in that case, nobody will back down easily, the stakes are too high.

[lilelvis2000]

All I will say is that I have been shocked at the death and destruction wrought by Israel. They have killed hundreds of innocent people, injured perhaps thousands, terrified and terrorised hundreds of thousands, bombed homes, buildings, roads, an airport etc. FFS why?

Speaking as someone who has argued for a strong Israel, I now find it hard to consider them as anything more than modern day Nazis.

PS are you Melanie Phillips?

If Israel really wanted to kill civilians they would have killed thousand by now. However, their intelligence in the area is quite poor, so they bomb anything suspicious. From time to time they do make mistakes of course. But this is war, S**T happens. Hezbollah hopes that by sacrificing civilians their installations will be safe. Israel has proven them to not be.

However, I do not consider Israel to be a kind country. It has a zealous hatred to the palestines and treats them like third class citizens. I'm even wary about their claim that the soldiers were in Israel when they were abducted. And remember the genocide on their hands in a refugee camp in southern Lebanon not too long ago. They are not nazis, but they beleive they are ordained "the chosen people" and so can do whatever they like. They are guaranteed heaven. The rest of us go to hell. Ironic then, that many israelis consider themselves to be agnostic.

And oh yeah the Iranians are nuts but this does buy them time on their nuclear program. You know how the American's wag the dog!