Iran's 60 year war against Israel

[AlfredJPruffock]

I am sorry Alf but you are not getting away with that. Dublin may have been committed to controlling Northern Ireland but it was not committed to wiping out the UK. I cannot see why you insist that talking is the solution. Iran and Syria along with Hamas and Hezbollah are committed to the destruction of Israel, they have no interest in peace other than as a means of regrouping.

The whole middle East peace process was built upon the wrong assumption that all sides were prepared to live with each other provided that the right compromises were made.

What about the full peace treaty offered by the Saudis in 2002, do you think that Israel will achive peace by launching further wars ?

If so I fear that the entire region will perish good news for the Oil Industry and the US Rapture Christians but bad news for humanity.

Israel should beware of Bushs real intentions with the entire region.


Back in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty. The offer was extraordinary in that it went much further than any previous Arab peace initiative had, before.

The Saudis offered not only to recognize Israel, they offered normalized relations, including full trade, economic ties, cultural exchanges: in short, an end to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The only condition was that Israel must abide by UN Security Council resolutions on Palestine.

The 2002 Saudi peace offer was a trial balloon, but it had broad support in the Arab world.

An end to the conflict was within reach in 2002, If the US government had prevailed upon Israel to respond favorably.

At the time the Bush administration had other priorities namely Iraq. .


Israel's PM Ariel Sharon did not actually reject the 2002 Saudi peace offer. As far as I know he never responded to it at all.

But it did happen.

In 2002 the Arab world extended an olive branch to Israel and it was ignored.

Let's face it, political negotiations are a messy business and they require painful compromise. Why go that route when you can simply impose your will upon the neighborhood"

[DodgyAgent]

What about the full peace treaty offered by the Saudis in 2002, do you think that Israel will achive peace by launching further wars ?

If so I fear that the entire region will perish good news for the Oil Industry and the US Rapture Christians but bad news for humanity.

Israel should beware of Bushs real intentions with the entire region.


Back in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty. The offer was extraordinary in that it went much further than any previous Arab peace initiative had, before.

The Saudis offered not only to recognize Israel, they offered normalized relations, including full trade, economic ties, cultural exchanges: in short, an end to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The only condition was that Israel must abide by UN Security Council resolutions on Palestine.

The 2002 Saudi peace offer was a trial balloon, but it had broad support in the Arab world.

An end to the conflict was within reach in 2002, If the US government had prevailed upon Israel to respond favorably.

At the time the Bush administration had other priorities namely Iraq. .


Israel's PM Ariel Sharon did not actually reject the 2002 Saudi peace offer. As far as I know he never responded to it at all.

But it did happen.

In 2002 the Arab world extended an olive branch to Israel and it was ignored.

Let's face it, political negotiations are a messy business and they require painful compromise. Why go that route when you can simply impose your will upon the neighborhood"

So are you saying that Iran and Syria are not hell bent upon the total destruction of Israel?

[AlfredJPruffock]

So are you saying that Iran and Syria are not hell bent upon the total destruction of Israel?

Well I was hoping we might have debated upon the 2002 Peace offer as a basis for stablity for the Middle East region,but if the polemic is only going to be based on total mutual destruction ie War War rather than Jaw Jaw then the sad conclusion is that could very well happen to the entire region.

Lets hope this is wrong but its getting harder to see otherwise.

[Fungus]

So are you saying that Iran and Syria are not hell bent upon the total destruction of Israel?

Actually Iran is far more complex than your simplistic analysis suggests. There are various factions, some loopy, some not. That's not to say that Iran is not potentially dangerous. The reactor is scary.

The problem is your simplistic neo-Nazi approach. "Iran hates us. Iran funds Hezbollah. Hezbollah is next door. Therefore that gives is a right to bomb the brown stuff out of Lebanese civilians." It's sick naive extreme right wing balls. All it does is alienate most of the world against Israel. And it solves nothing. Iran is a threat, but how does mass murder help? In fact it makes a peace between Israel and the Arabs less likely. I am quite astonished that Israelis do not give a tulip about how many innocent people are killed in the conflict.

Maybe you should take away your blinkers and see what is actually happening, rather than the Israeli manipulation, spin and hysterical crying. Israel consistently ignored the terms of the last peace accord by continuing expansion of settlements. And they twice broke the last cease fire, after which the Palestinian loonies resumed the fight. They do not want peace. Israeli is an imperialist state that wants more land. By creating bogey men they can continue business as usual. They tried to latch onto the war on terror to play along with Bush. They are very devious.

I have talked to Israelis and they tell me that the occupied territores are theirs by right. When I ask why, they say because their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago. It's loopy stuff.

[ALM]

Maybe you should take away your blinkers and see what is actually happening, rather than the Israeli manipulation, spin and hysterical crying. Israel consistently ignored the terms of the last peace accord by continuing expansion of settlements. And they twice broke the last cease fire, after which the Palestinian loonies resumed the fight. They do not want peace. Israeli is an imperialist state that wants more land. By creating bogey men they can continue business as usual. They tried to latch onto the war on terror to play along with Bush. They are very devious.

I have talked to Israelis and they tell me that the occupied territores are theirs by right. When I ask why, they say because their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago. It's loopy stuff.

Well said.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Rice arrives in Lebanese capital

Amid the diplomacy, Israel is continuing its advance into Lebanon
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has arrived in the Lebanese capital, Beirut, at the start of a Middle East tour to discuss the regional crisis.
She is expected to meet Lebanese leaders, including PM Fouad Siniora.

En route from Washington, Ms Rice said there was an "urgent" need for a ceasefire in Lebanon - but that conditions had to be right.

Is it purely a coincidence that this should happen hot on the heels of the Saudis demand to Bush that the fighting stops, who has the greater influence on Washington, is it Tel Aviv or is it Riyadh ?

I would have thought that in Oil and financial terms its Riyadh , time will tell.

[DodgyAgent]

Actually Iran is far more complex than your simplistic analysis suggests. There are various factions, some loopy, some not. That's not to say that Iran is not potentially dangerous. The reactor is scary.

The problem is your simplistic neo-Nazi approach. "Iran hates us. Iran funds Hezbollah. Hezbollah is next door. Therefore that gives is a right to bomb the brown stuff out of Lebanese civilians." It's sick naive extreme right wing balls. All it does is alienate most of the world against Israel. And it solves nothing. Iran is a threat, but how does mass murder help? In fact it makes a peace between Israel and the Arabs less likely. I am quite astonished that Israelis do not give a tulip about how many innocent people are killed in the conflict.

Maybe you should take away your blinkers and see what is actually happening, rather than the Israeli manipulation, spin and hysterical crying. Israel consistently ignored the terms of the last peace accord by continuing expansion of settlements. And they twice broke the last cease fire, after which the Palestinian loonies resumed the fight. They do not want peace. Israeli is an imperialist state that wants more land. By creating bogey men they can continue business as usual. They tried to latch onto the war on terror to play along with Bush. They are very devious.

I have talked to Israelis and they tell me that the occupied territores are theirs by right. When I ask why, they say because their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago. It's loopy stuff.

I dont really know where your hysterical ramblings come from Fungus. Obviously I am quite naive to think that Israel wants peace, that its democratically elected government that is answerable to its people simply has imperialistic ambitions to conquer the whole of the middle East. This is not reported as such in any of the broadsheets or the economist or any other publication other than maybe the Mirror.

I have set in what I think are fairly eloquent terms why I think Iran has no intention of allowing Israel to survive as an independent state. I am even quite happy to agree with you that the Israelis are very cunning, infact maybe cunning enough to realise that conquering Iran is beyond their means and that Bush only has a short time left in office and that they will need to continue to convince the US public that they are worthy of their support.

Maybe I am missing something here, in which case your hysterical rant does little to explain what it is. I am happy to concede where I am wrong (ask Alf) simply because I am interested in solutions to the crisis. You give the impression that this whole conflict is there to support a particular "set in stone bone in the nose view" for which you will argue come what may.

If I have misunderstood the dynamics of what is going on out there I am open to logical opinions, logically argued and politely put. After all I have never been to the middle East and nor do I know anyone who lives there. Your understanding would be appreciated

Otherwise F*** off and die you bearded little loser.

[ALM]

Otherwise F*** off and die you bearded little loser.

Given that you have voiced this desire to see the end of Fungus, is he now allowed to bomb you, your friends, those living around you and destroy bridges, hospitals, airports and train stations in your area?

[DodgyAgent]

Given that you have voiced this desire to see the end of Fungus, is he now allowed to bomb you, your friends, those living around you and destroy bridges, hospitals, airports and train stations in your area?

You're not exactly the sharpest or wittiest little pencil in the case are you ALM?

[Hart-floot]

[I]Rice arrives in Lebanese capital

Is it purely a coincidence that this should happen hot on the heels of the Saudis demand to Bush that the fighting stops, who has the greater influence on Washington, is it Tel Aviv or is it Riyadh ?

I would have thought that in Oil and financial terms its Riyadh , time will tell.

All the Saudi's have to do is threaten to reduce their oil exports from Ras Tanura terminal by 30 % and the Americans will jump