surprise

[Spacecadet]

Looks like you'll have to be on cretin duty today, got some models to run.

Have you created your own Dam Busters reenactment?

[northernladuk]

I'm fascinated as to why my missus's overseas birth should disqualify her from benefits when she's been paying tax and NI for the last 16 years.

I don't think that is what is getting peoples back up. It's what is going to happen in the future and we what can we do to stop it spiralling out of control. People are not all out for kicking out every foreigner they see but something certainly has to change to stop the rise. The census evidence is just showing what is happening and will continue to happen. I am not angry at the people that are here now, am angry at the gov't and situation that is going let a worrying trend continue until it is a right mess.

[d000hg]

I'd swap Sas for a Romanian street cleaner any day. They could probably provide better economic theories for a start.

[Old Greg]

I don't think that is what is getting peoples back up. It's what is going to happen in the future and we what can we do to stop it spiralling out of control. People are not all out for kicking out every foreigner they see but something certainly has to change to stop the rise. The census evidence is just showing what is happening and will continue to happen. I am not angry at the people that are here now, am angry at the gov't and situation that is going let a worrying trend continue until it is a right mess.

Sure. I'm just wondering what vetran's policy position is.

[vetran]

To answer Old Greg, (by the way it is not personal),

1. contributions are not directly linked to benefits that is a basic precept of the benefits system, if they were I suspect the vast majority of the posters here could give up work, buy a house in Wales and live the dream with ZG on pretty good benefits.

2. Marriage for citizenship is regularly abused. Absence of a lottery win on benefits makes that less likely.

3. where do we draw the line? Your foreign born wife, your Italian half brother, your mexican maid, your foreign mate down the pub? These lines need to be drawn somewhere.

4. I'm sort of assuming your wife uses the fire service, NHS etc? Is that not what her contributions contribute to?



For the hard of thinking (SAS) I will restate the question in big letters and shorter words.

If many UK citizens pay tax all their lives and never see of it back as benefits why should we pay out to someone who isn't a UK citizen who has paid tax?

[vetran]

I don't think that is what is getting peoples back up. It's what is going to happen in the future and we what can we do to stop it spiralling out of control. People are not all out for kicking out every foreigner they see but something certainly has to change to stop the rise. The census evidence is just showing what is happening and will continue to happen. I am not angry at the people that are here now, am angry at the gov't and situation that is going let a worrying trend continue until it is a right mess.

Yep my position, sort it now before it becomes too big to do peacefully.

[Spacecadet]

If many UK citizens pay tax all their lives and never see of it back as benefits why should we pay out to someone who isn't a UK citizen who has paid tax?

If someone has moved here and has clearly demonstrated that they are willing to play the game properly i.e. work and pay taxes then why not. Or should immigrants be entitled to a lower tax rate to reflect the fact that they can never claim benefits?

[vetran]

If someone has moved here and has clearly demonstrated that they are willing to play the game properly i.e. work and pay taxes then why not. Or should immigrants be entitled to a lower tax rate to reflect the fact that they can never claim benefits?

Its a bit like hiring Policemen, they get hundreds of credible applications for each opportunity, they can drop the wages of new starters. We don't need to.

Do we need a lower tax rate? Do they do that in Switzerland or Germany for foreign workers?

Can you as a UK citizen claim the same benefits as a Swiss or German citizen?

Like a business look at the competition and set accordingly, review on a regular basis.

Personally I quite like the idea of earning benefits for proactive immigrants if we can stop it being abused.

But we can't say you create a benefit pot because industry need cheap labour so many with a job are being paid pathetic wages and already being subsidised by the UK public.

[sasguru]

Its a bit like hiring Policemen, they get hundreds of credible applications for each opportunity, they can drop the wages of new starters. We don't need to.

Do we need a lower tax rate? Do they do that in Switzerland or Germany for foreign workers?

Can you as a UK citizen claim the same benefits as a Swiss or German citizen?

Like a business look at the competition and set accordingly, review on a regular basis.

You're the reason we need immigration.
Most modern high-value businesses need an IQ much higher than the basic low level of intelligence which you are demonstrating on here, and other threads, by your utter lack of logic and numeracy.

[Mich the Tester]

Its a bit like hiring Policemen, they get hundreds of credible applications for each opportunity, they can drop the wages of new starters. We don't need to.

Do we need a lower tax rate? Do they do that in Switzerland or Germany for foreign workers?

Can you as a UK citizen claim the same benefits as a Swiss or German citizen?

Like a business look at the competition and set accordingly, review on a regular basis.

Yes ( in Germany), if you've paid in for some number of years. Dunno about Switzerland, but most countries differentiate between 'handouts', like income support, which aren't related to how much you pay in, and state insurance pay-outs like unemployment benefit, state pension, disability payments; the state insurance payouts are available to those who've paid in.