Muslims stirring it

[Hawk]

Which quote was that d000hg

I do think you make out to be tolerant, and peace loving, but you're not; you didn't correct me at all, please don't even suggest you did.

I am not being short sighted, for the first time in modern history, homosexuals aren't being treated like pariahs, and are being afford rights never seen before. With this, and the churches viewpoint on homosexuality, or equality altogether, there will be a big clash, for religion is completely out of tune with life today.

Christianity isn't a growing concern, it's dying. The Russian orthodox went underground, and nearly disappeared; it didn't, in the end, as it was tolerated. Were later day Russian leaders to have shown the church the diffidence Stalin did, it simply would not exist today. It was allowed to exist.

I do not think thr Chutrch has suddenly been turned on by the state, but I do recognise the demise of something when I see it; the Church no longer has the power in the community it did, and states are now not scared of making laws which force them to be current. This is a growing trend. Religion is not in a growth area at the moment, and I think it simply isn't relevant anymore, and I think people recognise this.

Let me know which quote you wish to have cited and I will d000hg. This is the thin edge of the wedge for the church d000hg; it's just the start.

P.S. Pastors have been being killed since I can remember, in countries they're not welcome. Put a pastor in a village in pretty much any 'stan right now and they'll be in an unmarked shallow grave within days.

[Gibbon]

And of course, for the first couple of centuries Christianity suffered massive persecution under the Romans.

Church propaganda, it was in the main sporadic and occasional until an horrendous decade when Diocletian was emperor. Most emperors followed Trajan's line and didn't seek them out, and they weren't under the Romans they were Romans.

[d000hg]

Homosexuality is just this decade's conflict between church and non-church, there have been others and will be more in the future, regardless how this plays out. If a church (other than CofE) feels strongly enough it can simply stop performing marriages altogether as it seems all of us are in favour of anyway.

People have been saying Christianity is on the way out for about 2000 years.

Suggestions that forcing a church underground would kill it simply show your fundamental lack of understanding. A church can quite happily survive with no church buildings or vicars or bishops, but as thousands or millions of tiny house-churches. Again, see modern China. Or more likely, spout some made up rubbish without doing a jot of research. And consdiering how recently Russia was anti-religion, look at how fast the church there (and other religions) have sprung back up... that doesn't suggest any of the believers stopped believing or that they were even slightly able to wipe out religion. All a state can do is suppress visible religion.

And I meant the quote about how the Danish church is forced to marry gays - this doesn't match what I read on wiki so what is your source?

[d000hg]

P.S. Pastors have been being killed since I can remember, in countries they're not welcome. Put a pastor in a village in pretty much any 'stan right now and they'll be in an unmarked shallow grave within days.

And yet in such places, the church is growing rapidly - despite knowing it's a possible a death sentence people are leaving families to convert. That doesn't suggest oppression is very successful to me.

[d000hg]

Church propaganda, it was in the main sporadic and occasional until an horrendous decade when Diocletian was emperor. Most emperors followed Trajan's line and didn't seek them out, and they weren't under the Romans they were Romans.

It depends what you call massive I suppose. I was specifically talking about the very early days, years and decades rather than centuries, but I haven't read my history books for a while

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I personally am astonished that there is so little opposition to all this. The once respected and revered institution of marriage is being mocked and degraded to the point that two males can become husband and husband or two females can become wife and wife. With such a high divorce rate and the state of society I guess I should have seen this coming.....

[Hawk]

And yet in such places, the church is growing rapidly - despite knowing it's a possible a death sentence people are leaving families to convert. That doesn't suggest oppression is very successful to me.

No it isn't, the church isn't growing in Afghanistan, Uzbeckistan, Pakistan. Far from it.

[The Spartan]

What's wrong with Civil Ceremonies then? Were they not created for this purpose?

[minestrone]

Legally the doors are now open now for polygamists to challenge their illegal marital status. If the sodomites can get married in a church then game on for the Mormons again.

[MyUserName]

It depends what you call massive I suppose. I was specifically talking about the very early days, years and decades rather than centuries, but I haven't read my history books for a while

I would be interested in any historical information that you have? ISTR they were blamed for a fire in 64 and some were executed by Nero but that does not necesarily seem to be because of their religion, were they particularly hounded after that?

Note, that whether they were or not does not indicate whether their religion was any more true than anyone else's. I am just curious.

I personally am astonished that there is so little opposition to all this. The once respected and revered institution of marriage is being mocked and degraded to the point that two males can become husband and husband or two females can become wife and wife.

Not sure whether you are joking or not, in case you are not:

If they are a loving, committed couple then their gender is irrelevant. There is so little opposition to this because homophobic bigotry is being stamped out by secular reasoning and morality.