Massive Mosque?

[Scoobos]

Even on this thread, everyones talking about the PC issues and no ones even followed up anything on Tablighi Jamaat.

They are doing a damn good job of getting massive sites set up around the UK and beyond, while the PC brigade argue the toss over whether we are discriminating against islam.

In this case we are seeing a group with dubious intentions, pretty much take a space then wangle the system to develop it. They have been highlighted in the media since 2005 - with very real links to the train bombings in London and extremism in their sites built in other countries.

Bombers trained and prepped in your sites in Dewsbury, want to build a 10,000 seater in our capital on a site that was just supposed to be temporary? sure go ahead, after all it is religious isnt it?

[NotAllThere]

...People who used the cinemas and bingo halls generally use to travel by public transport unfortunately church goers can't be guaranteed to do this. ...

Is that because there's f.a. public transport on Sundays?

Re: largest mosque. That is quite surprising - but the Wail says Morden.

[vetran]

Even on this thread, everyones talking about the PC issues and no ones even followed up anything on Tablighi Jamaat.

They are doing a damn good job of getting massive sites set up around the UK and beyond, while the PC brigade argue the toss over whether we are discriminating against islam.

In this case we are seeing a group with dubious intentions, pretty much take a space then wangle the system to develop it. They have been highlighted in the media since 2005 - with very real links to the train bombings in London and extremism in their sites built in other countries.

Bombers trained and prepped in your sites in Dewsbury, want to build a 10,000 seater in our capital on a site that was just supposed to be temporary? sure go ahead, after all it is religious isnt it?

+1

[vetran]

Is that because there's f.a. public transport on Sundays?

Re: largest mosque. That is quite surprising - but the Wail says Morden.

was Morden, check the date

[formant]

Even on this thread, everyones talking about the PC issues and no ones even followed up anything on Tablighi Jamaat.

They are doing a damn good job of getting massive sites set up around the UK and beyond, while the PC brigade argue the toss over whether we are discriminating against islam.

Unfortuantely we've been granting religious freedoms to various groups for a stupidly long time. If you're going to refuse rights to Muslims that you've previously willingly given to Christians, Jews, etc - then that simply is discrimination, no PC brigade necessary.

In this case we are seeing a group with dubious intentions, pretty much take a space then wangle the system to develop it. They have been highlighted in the media since 2005 - with very real links to the train bombings in London and extremism in their sites built in other countries.

Criminal and civil matters don't mix well in our bureaucracy. You may well suspect criminal/terrorist affiliations among a certain group, but there's no way for that to legitimately affect planning permissions they apply for.

Bombers trained and prepped in your sites in Dewsbury, want to build a 10,000 seater in our capital on a site that was just supposed to be temporary? sure go ahead, after all it is religious isnt it?

Well, the flawed system started with tolerating religious BS from Christians and other groups (and it's not like religious terrorism is a purely Muslim problem). Can of worms opened and tough to close now, without rightfully being accused of discrimination.

I'm not at all fond of any new or old religious architectural structure - I dislike all God-botherers equally and would prefer if all their faith-related rights were heaviliy restricted. But I don't believe in cherry picking and singling out Muslims, while leaving the legal framework intact to serve other Christians and the likes whatever they ask for on a silver platter.

[RasputinDude]

I dislike all God-botherers equally

You actually *dislike* people that you have never met simply because they have a belief in the existence of God? Wow.

[formant]

You actually *dislike* people that you have never met simply because they have a belief in the existence of God? Wow.

Nah, just those who can't keep their faith to themselves.

Should have phrased this as disliking all religious groups and their objectives equally, I don't actually care about the individuals.

[NotAllThere]

So where their objectives are simply to promote the well-being and happiness of their fellow man, without any attempt at proselytisation, as many groups do, you hate that as well?

Don't know much about religion or religious practice do you? Nice to know that ignorance, bigotry and hypocrisy aren't restricted to the religious.

I'm a disestablishmentarianist, and think no religious group should get privilege or extra rights just because they are a religious group - so I agree with you there.

In most of the Western World, free speech is considered a good thing. That includes the right of god botherers to bother you. And for you to tell them to f. off.

[formant]

So where their objectives are simply to promote the well-being and happiness of their fellow man, without any attempt at proselytisation, as many groups do, you hate that as well?

Don't know much about religion or religious practice do you? Nice to know that ignorance, bigotry and hypocrisy aren't restricted to the religious.

I'm a disestablishmentarianist, and think no religious group should get privilege or extra rights just because they are a religious group - so I agree with you there.

In most of the Western World, free speech is considered a good thing. That includes the right of god botherers to bother you. And for you to tell them to f. off.

I don't "hate", you read that wrong, I dislike.

Objectives of promoting the well-being and happiness of fellow men are not religious in nature as such and can't be judged as that. And such objectives within religious groups sadly don't normally come without proselytisation, otherwise they'd do away with the religous framework and just focus on being decent human beings.

I actually know a hell of a lot more about religion and religious practice than the average religious fella (that isn't hard though).

Not sure what you think I implied about a dislike for free speech, but that's not at all the issue. Demanding policy in favour of one religion and to disfavour another or the non-religious however isn't a matter of free speech, it's a matter of presumed entitlement on religious grounds. Anyone can voice that, but I'm not going to like it nor am I going to nod in agreement.

[Scoobos]

formant, I was pleased someone replied on that particular thread, but I still don't buy the argument that we tolerate people who are known to harbour beliefs that lead to the death and injury of people with another view.

There's loads of examples of religious sects being "discriminated" against for having non tolerant or hate views. It's not allowed for anyone to form a religion that, for example says we should treat Jewish people as second rate citizens.

What I'm getting at, is within the Islamic world these guys are seen as the Jehovah’s Witness (SP?) of their world - but we've also convicted criminals who have killed people on religious grounds, in the UK - who were trained and indoctrinated in Dewsbury with this organisation.

What is the Tablighi Jamaat? | Jenny Taylor | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Finally, I'm a religious kind of guy, not over the top - but I do feel as NAT said, that a lot of "atheists" are so vocal against religion that it’s a religion in itself.

For me, this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with political naivety and naivety within the population of foreign cultures and countries - that we think everyone has the same outlook and culture as ourselves. There ARE big countries out there that harbour cultures so far from our own you wouldn't believe - we are being exploited due to our "soft" views on this.

I'm as liberal as they come, and have no problem with any religion growing in the UK (If churches close, they close because people don't go) - but hiding a militant organisation behind religion is the same as using human shields or putting weapons in school yards to me. We must protect our populace against this kind of thing or we'll end up with a situation that is beyond our control (as I believe is already the case in Dewsbury, thanks in part to these guys)

End rant.

* Anti racism card - I've HAPPILY lived and worked in Malaysia for a long time, which has more Muslims than any other country. The friends I made their openly stated that people who cannot be tolerated in Malaysia for their extremist views go to countries that are a "soft touch" in order to live the way they want to without control. As we don't understand this, we say any behaviour is acceptable, as we don't want to be "Racist".

If a person cannot tolerate Malaysia because the laws allow all religions , and Islamic law is voluntary - then why for gawds sake do they get the right to excersize this view in Dewsbury , or one of the many other northern towns chosen to create sects? Are we near a state where we say “you have a right to stone people, as its a religious thing?”

If you still perceive this as racist, then fair enough - but its not my driver at all. What I'm trying to get at is that we are allowing things on religious grounds that the heartland of the religion itself doesn't allow.

<sorry for wall of text>