Massive Mosque?

[captainham]

I rest my case, this just popped up. Islam needs Max Clifford.

BBC News - Yaseen Ali Ege murder: Mother killed son over Koran studies

Damn, there goes that idea.

BBC News - Max Clifford arrested in sex offences investigation

[NotAllThere]

I don't "hate", you read that wrong, I dislike.

It's only a matter of degree.

Not sure what you think I implied about a dislike for free speech, but that's not at all the issue.

Because you said:

I... would prefer if all their faith-related rights were heaviliy restricted.

One faith related right you object to is seeking converts. But that is part of free speech. Start curtailing that right, and you're cutting right into freedom of speech.

Anyway, Western culture, with its Judeo-Christian heritage, focuses on the freedom of the individual where that freedom doesn't cause harm to others (1 Peter 2:16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover for evil). This goes against certain religious expression (including some Christian fundementalists) who want the right to impose their intolerance on others.

When they try to do this, and people protest, they pull the racist card, and insist that the liberal western culture is being hypocritical in not protecting their religious freedom.

[LatteLiberal]

The sooner all religions die out the better, it has only harmed and retarded the progress of the human race.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

The sooner all religions die out the better, it has only harmed and retarded the progress of the human race.

Interesting you say this. There was a famous historian (can't remember his name) who went to Muslim countries and came back. He said:

"I found Muslims in the east but no Islam, I saw Islam in the west but no Muslims".

You will find that the religion itself preaches a lot of what you don't think it preaches. It is often people that give the religion a bad name, not the religion itself. I've mentioned this before - look at where a lot of our sciences came from.....

[SupremeSpod]

Voltaire "Man will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

[LatteLiberal]

Interesting you say this. There was a famous historian (can't remember his name) who went to Muslim countries and came back. He said:

"I found Muslims in the east but no Islam, I saw Islam in the west but no Muslims".

You will find that the religion itself preaches a lot of what you don't think it preaches. It is often people that give the religion a bad name, not the religion itself. I've mentioned this before - look at where a lot of our sciences came from.....

Sciences root's are from Classical Greece, then when Christianity got hold of the west it fought hard to inhibit the progress of Science. To say that religion did anything other than slow the progress of science portrays your ignorance of history.

[formant]

One faith related right you object to is seeking converts..

I don't know where you got idea that from. I have a (slightly wordier) sign on my door that tells missionaries (and charity fundraisers, and door-to-door salespeople) to essentially eff off - that's my bit done, I don't personally get bothered much these days. The whole point of most religions is to gain new converts and grow (after all they all think they're "right"), I may think that's silly, but that's not what I'm talking about in restricting faith-based rights.

I'm predominantly concerned with successful religious lobbying for policies that disadvantage those of other or no faith or aim to restrict their individual rights because one religion thinks something is "wrong" (e.g. abortion and the likes). That's what I'd like to see more heavily restricted.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Sciences root's are from Classical Greece, then when Christianity got hold of the west it fought hard to inhibit the progress of Science. To say that religion did anything other than slow the progress of science portrays your ignorance of history.

Your only talking about the church a few centuries ago. You are only looking at part of the overall picture. Christianity and other religions gave us a lot more than you give credit for. Just because there is some nut case or extremist who makes use of it for their own goal, does not mean to say it is the religions fault. If you look at the essence of all the religions then they would make this world a far better place than it is, were they properly implemented.

[LatteLiberal]

Your only talking about the church a few centuries ago. You are only looking at part of the overall picture. Christianity and other religions gave us a lot more than you give credit for. Just because there is some nut case or extremist who makes use of it for their own goal, does not mean to say it is the religions fault. If you look at the essence of all the religions then they would make this world a far better place than it is, were they properly implemented.

That is the most idiotic comment I have read on here yet. Please read up on religion and history.

[formant]

Just because there is some nut case or extremist who makes use of it for their own goal, does not mean to say it is the religions fault.

It's rarely the one nutcase or extremist who's the 'problem' - it's the masses of sheep that follow him and cheer him on. And that is a problem with religion - it's easily manipulated as a catalyst, it gets people passionate, and - more often than not - about the wrong things.

And I'm not sure how far back or how hypothetical you want to get about the 'good' that comes from religion, but I do recommend reading scriptures such as the bible back to front - paying particularly close attention to the gruesomeness and contradictions of God's 'actions' (Evil Bible Home Page has a good collection of those if you don't actually want to read the whole thing). Religious people like to cherry pick the sweet stuff while sweeping the not-so-pretty under the nearest rug.