Great unwashed to do manual work for benefits

[xoggoth]

The Arsebishop of Canterbury disapproves so it must be a good idea.

BBC News - Ministers defend plan to force jobless to do work

The Arsebishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, expressed his concern, telling the BBC: "People who are struggling to find work and struggling to find a secure future are - I think - driven further into a downward spiral of uncertainty, even despair, when the pressure is on in that way.

"People often are in this starting place, not because they're wicked, stupid or lazy, but because their circumstances are against them, they've failed to break through into something and to drive that spiral deeper - as I say - does feel a great problem

Actually I agree with that in some cases, just think he's drawing completely the wrong conclusions. People in a "downward spiral" are more likely to be helped by having some discipline imposed on them.

[suityou01]

SY. Is this one of your 'everyone PM's me and I'm very popular' themes?

Everyone knows that Admin only allows you one PM a day due to your sockie abuse of the system some months ago.

Sad.

Hey MF

Sorry for the delay in posting a response, been reading people's PM's. For the reason you stated I cannot reply via PM so I hope it's ok to do so here?

1) IIRC she is a size 14
2) Try using a muscle relaxant first.
3) Purple
4) Only with a liberal application of vaseline first
5) Agree
6) MrMark would never agree to that
7) RichardCranium may agree to that
8) That's not legal in this country
9) Really?
10) I think you may need some counselling with that

HTH

[MrMark]

Hey MF

Sorry for the delay in posting a response, been reading people's PM's. For the reason you stated I cannot reply via PM so I hope it's ok to do so here?

1) IIRC she is a size 14
2) Try using a muscle relaxant first.
3) Purple
4) Only with a liberal application of vaseline first
5) Agree
6) MrMark would never agree to that
7) RichardCranium may agree to that
8) That's not legal in this country
9) Really?
10) I think you may need some counselling with that

HTH

This is strange. A genuinely hilarious post from SY01. Perhaps I am under the influence after all.

[d000hg]

If you're not happy with the way things are then put pressure on your local council and get them to sort out the contractors. Here in London (well my part) they seem to do a good job. Despite all this talk of "they can't get good workers in London" they seem to do so no problem here. Kudos to Westminster Council.
But as I mentioned earlier you can't add "unemployed punishment squads" to the existing service provider. The contractor would tell the council or government to sling its hook - Apart from anything else it would violate insurance arrangements. It may seem appealing to get long-term doleites run over on the A12, but it ain't going to happen

A team of X people can only do so much work, regardless how hard they work. Budgets might mean X is not enough people, and a backlog of work builds up. In MANY areas, unpaid voluntary workers aid paid services already in order to keep their neighbourhoods clean and so on.

I cannot understand how someone can come straight out of a contract and immediately sign on.

Well it depends doesn't it. If you're employed by your own Ltd and sign on at the same time this is basically illegal, unless you stop taking a salary in which case it is at the very least extremely sneaky.
If you work through an umbrella then you ARE genuinely unemployed outside a contract, aren't you?

[AlfredJPruffock]

They should be given jobs that require only final supervision to see if job was done well or not, such work should be very strict - basically if they feck about, or don't do to the highest standard then they are out of that work and on their own - no benefits obviously.

Was that how people were treated in the former Workers Paradise ?

The theory and principle seem fine - however the Devil is in the detail of such an undertaking ... perhaps like the Poll Tax ...

PS why not add the Bankers to this one month Short Sharp Shock treatment - didnt they cause this mess in the first place ?


Time Will Tell

[AtW]

Was that how people were treated in the former Workers Paradise ?

No, treatment was much more harsh - not having a job was actually a criminal offence.

PS why not add the Bankers to this one month Short Sharp Shock treatment - didnt they cause this mess in the first place ?

What bankers have got to do with people who refuse to take *any* job after X months on unemployment benefits?

[xoggoth]

I rather wonder if the former Workers Paradise would have been a lot more sensible over these things.

Marx did say "from each according to his ability" so there should be no place in either the left or right philosophies for tolerance of those who do not do what they reasonably can for themselves and then expect others to fund their lifestyle.

Excessive wealth distribution is destructive to economies as the comparison of the economies of rigid communist states with their non communist counterparts shows. When the distribution is to those who we feel do not deserve it, when we cannot look at them and "say that could be me" it is extremely destructive of society. What is the purpose of working hard for less than others get for doing nothing?

That is the the reality of welfare at present, if you only have potential to earn a small wage you are better off not bothering. Anyone who has rented cheap places on contract and has also done voluntary work involving DSS recipients will know that they get a much better standard of housing than low paid workers. I once helped an alcoholic woman move into a brand new purpose built flat.

[AtW]

"from each according to his ability"

Hard work helped develop new abilities - if Marx lived in the age of apes, we'd still be on the trees and NickFits would be moderator

[shoes]

When you lot all join the ranks of 'the great unwashed' yourselves you won't think it's such a great idea.

'and you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still fkin peasants as far as i can see'

[vetran]

Yop & YTS helped considerably with my peers & me.

But the key thing here is welfare to work which has worked reasonably well in the states.

It doesn't matter what the work is (within reason) its enough to make them work.

And yes having cleaned just about anything and waited tables I have no problem doing unpleasant tasks to pay to live.