Offshoring - The Moral & Economic Case

[pzz76077]

That means I came to this country with desire to stay here permanently - this means I'd have same cost base and would price myself accordingly.

If goals are short term - get some money regardless if that would be enough for pension. mortgage or to go get drunk with mates in a pub regularly, then suddenly pricing of that person would be very different because they won't have long term costs associated with being in this country.

Note here - I think visa program should be used to attract real top talent but they should be paid very well with minimum salary being at least £35-40k, maybe more.

There you go again, thinking that you are somehow in the same market as ICTs.
You people don't have the slightest idea how this all works.

PZZ

[pzz76077]

how tall are you PZZ ? about 3 foot six I reckon.


a lot of points seem to go right over your head

Which ones would they be then precisely??


PZZ

[gingerjedi]

Anyway my point was that it is easy to complain about something, any fool can do that. Solutions take much more.

PZZ

Have you any suggestions other than put up and shut up?

This is a forum for contractors, no-one on here is going to be happy with insourcing of foreign labour (apart from you it seems), arguing the case for multinationals to rampantly ruin part of a countries economy purely for maximum profit is like arguing the case for Nazis gassing the Jews ...try looking at it from a Jewish point of view.

[AtW]

Whats the point of UK gov receiving 150m, they will only waste it on something stupid like another dumb IT project that makes everyones life a misery.

The point for UK Govt is that it won't have 55k unemployed people who have big mortgages defaulting on which would trigger massive losses to banks and so on and on.

If those ICTs were actually creating genuine high paid jobs for locals then it would make sense.

Or if ICTs were needed in boom years to sustain growth in economy that would otherwise not grow, then it also makes sense.

I can't see how it makes sense in all other cases, and it also includes those ICTs - as I say my feeling is that situation is very different than it was 10 years ago - those ICTs don't have long term planning, they just got sent here as cheap temporary workforce replacement, and this means that lack of long term planning on their part would really **** up the system: 55000 is not a small number (unless its false).

[EternalOptimist]

Here is a thought phil4576

the moral case (for socialists) is that it brings socialism by the back door. You dont have to force people to work on the farm, because the white collars will lose their jobs to cheaper foreigners, then have no option. Then when everyone across the world has the same standard and quality of life, it will no longer be attractive to foreigners to come here, so they wont, and we can take those jobs back and then we will all prosper at the same pace.
Its called 'levelling'

The economic case (for this government) is that the big business has convinced them that cheap workers means cheap products and that cheap products means a healthy economy. There is also a job for life for the minister afterward.

There is also a political case. (in the socialist mind).
Thatcher attacked the people of this country in an immoral and economicaly insane way when she took on and defeated the miners. Then closed the mines.
The socialists must have their revenge, they must identify a target and ravage it from day one, even if it means attacking your own people


It's a funny thing this. I never felt under attack by the Taliban or by the Iranians or by Bin Laden, but I have worked hard and paid my taxes only to feel that I am under attack by my own government

[pzz76077]

The point for UK Govt is that it won't have 55k unemployed people who have big mortgages defaulting on which would trigger massive losses to banks and so on and on.

If those ICTs were actually creating genuine high paid jobs for locals then it would make sense.

Or if ICTs were needed in boom years to sustain growth in economy that would otherwise not grow, then it also makes sense.

I can't see how it makes sense in all other cases, and it also includes those ICTs - as I say my feeling is that situation is very different than it was 10 years ago - those ICTs don't have long term planning, they just got sent here as cheap temporary workforce replacement, and this means that lack of long term planning on their part would really **** up the system: 55000 is not a small number (unless its false).

Can you provide any evidence that the UK has 55k more unemployed because of ICTs??

Again you are missing the point, cheap IT Indian IT staff save UK industry billions each year- money they can spend on something else and taxation. Given the choice of that or give 150m to the gov, I know which I would choose.

PZZ

[AtW]

Can you provide any evidence that the UK has 55k more unemployed because of ICTs??

No, I can't, not because it is impossible, but because I lack desire and resources to do so.

What I know pretty much certainly is that this recession has hit IT folk pretty hard, harder than what happened after .COM bust.

I also know mindset of immigrants and I say that goals of those on ICTs and those like myself were very different and coupled with number of people involved this difference is pretty deadly to locals.

Again you are missing the point, cheap IT Indian IT staff save UK industry billions each year

You don't understand economics - there is multiplicative effect of each pound earned by a local and spent locally, the whole taxation game is about making sure money move around so that they get taxed many times over. As soon as this pound goes out of circulation a LOT more pounds get lost.

[pzz76077]

No, I can't, not because it is impossible, but because I lack desire and resources to do so.

What I know pretty much certainly is that this recession has hit IT folk pretty hard, harder than what happened after .COM bust.

I also know mindset of immigrants and I say that goals of those on ICTs and those like myself were very different and coupled with number of people involved this difference is pretty deadly to locals.


You don't understand economics - there is multiplicative effect of each pound earned by a local and spent locally, the whole taxation game is about making sure money move around so that they get taxed many times over. As soon as this pound goes out of circulation a LOT more pounds get lost.

It hit some IT folk hard, others with skills in demand are still doing fine. Some (including myself) found a new niche and are doing better than ever.

I don't think the pounds go out of circulation as you put it, just used for a different purpose.

PZZ

[gingerjedi]

It hit some IT folk hard, others with skills in demand are still doing fine. Some (including myself) found a new niche and are doing better than ever.

I don't think the pounds go out of circulation as you put it, just used for a different purpose.

PZZ

You could have just said 'I'm alright Jack' right at the start, I'm sure all the benched people facing an uncertain future would pat you on the back for being so smug.

[AtW]

It hit some IT folk hard, others with skills in demand are still doing fine. Some (including myself) found a new niche and are doing better than ever.

You can't have enough niched for everyone - some mainstream work ought to be available otherwise competition for niches will be just too high.

I am doing well too, that does not mean I am arrogant or stupid enough not to see how serious situation gets now.