Oh Dear: Is there any other country in Europe where this would cause outrage ?

[sasguru]

I really don't have time but try venturing into our inner cities late at night. Try talking to real people who live in towns with no-go areas within. Try speaking to young people who are discarded as sons/daughters of chavs. Look around city centres for the drug dealers and the EEus hanging around intimidating people. Get on a late bus in London and pray you'll be OK. Bye all.

I used to live in inner City London. I still use the night bus all the time. Yes there are problems but not as much as you say. Have you ever even been on a night bus?

[Ardesco]

I really don't have time but try venturing into our inner cities late at night. Try talking to real people who live in towns with no-go areas within. Try speaking to young people who are discarded as sons/daughters of chavs. Look around city centres for the drug dealers and the EEus hanging around intimidating people. Get on a late bus in London and pray you'll be OK. Bye all.

So are you saying that this has been caused by immigration?

And not the current crock o sh*te at the top handing out so much money on benefits that there is no point working when you can earn the same by sitting on your ass at home doing drugs all day?

[Old Greg]

I used to live in inner City London. I still use the night bus all the time. Yes there are problems but not as much as you say. Have you ever even been on a night bus?

I never had a problem living in Tottenham a few years ago (and I am white btw). And I still get the Night Bus now and again. A bit rowdy, but I don't see a racial / ethnic element to it.

In my experience small English market towns can be pretty hairy on a Saturday night and most of the people causing problems look white to me. But I'm not saying they do it because they are white, they just have nowhere to go at closing time.

[Causus Deli]

How crass would it be to invite someone into ones own home and then kick them out. If one has not asked them I suggest a firm boot up the arse would be appropriate. If people are British, born or otherwise then they are ours, if they are not then they are surplus to requirements. I would not have taken in so many and changed the social fabric of our country so dramatically but I'm happy that once it has happened they are here to stay.

We should only invite in any people who are good for our economy and provide expertise that is not available here already. This is what happens in other countries and makes sense for us, that's right us. It is disgusting to refer to your own people in such derogatory terms, discarding them instead of affecting a change. Replacement with cheap imported labour is not the answer, replacement is not possible, they will still be here, still discarded. So we invite in someone who may be keen to use us, then we have two unskilled people, one unemployed 'chav' and one immigrant paying little tax. 2 people using the resources and creating social problems and one small tax contribution to the coffers that doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of themselves let alone 2. Better mobilise our own and discard the need for imports of this type. So just 1 not quite paying his/her way instead of 2, and we can all get on the tube etc.

I guess you are all doing very nicely thank you, and slagging off your own people whilst extolling the virtues of immigrants makes you all feel a whole lot better about yourselves. Not so guilty eh? 'Lazy chavs should have worked harder at school', well the system failed them right and the system now discards them and creates a cascade of deprivation that can only result in social unrest. Unless we address our own peoples needs first in terms of housing, jobs and education and give them the means of getting out of their position this unrest is our future. Belligerent's on all sides taking the opportunity to create mayhem which is no use to immigrant and indigenous alike.

It is well documented that racial violence is more incident in the non indigenous peoples, this despite the clearly unfair treatment of said unfortunates.

And to the poor sad individual who made an ass of themselves, searching the internet for me and finding a contribution to Channel 4 news forum about Griffins right/otherwise to speak on QT. Didn't say what it was about I could have, accepted unlikely, been saying it would not be a very good idea to have one-eye on QT for all they knew/told. I guess it was about 6-8 weeks ago. Then the foolish use of a number theory basic conjecture, misspelling said thingy was hilarious. And the binary GEE 'cr@p' statement being such an overgeneralisation as to be laughable, someone say that once in a particular scenario involving informative missingness perchance?. Look debate the issues and avoid plagiarism out of context it's a lot safer than attacking on matters where you are unqualified.

Thank you for your time. Do forgive any mishaps of a typographical nature, it's late and it's my lappy keyboard; sink me it's incompatible with my large hands.

[Causus Deli]

So are you saying that this has been caused by immigration?

And not the current crock o sh*te at the top handing out so much money on benefits that there is no point working when you can earn the same by sitting on your ass at home doing drugs all day?

The crock of sh1te are responsible for our wonderful little multicultural experiment that has created the hellhole that is inner city England today. Where Somalian drug dealers hang around our shopping cventres of NW/N London, where the east end is a no go area after dark with no signs of Peggy or the boys, Where gangs kill each other in S London and Tamils slice people in NW London. I don't say it is these people to blame they should not have been mixed up with other desperate people in such volumes with no hope.

[BrilloPad]

The crock of sh1te are responsible for our wonderful little multicultural experiment that has created the hellhole that is inner city England today. Where Somalian drug dealers hang around our shopping cventres of NW/N London, where the east end is a no go area after dark with no signs of Peggy or the boys, Where gangs kill each other in S London and Tamils slice people in NW London. I don't say it is these people to blame they should not have been mixed up with other desperate people in such volumes with no hope.

So was it any different with no immigrants in the middle ages? Even in Victorian times with few immigrants there was plenty of crime.

[Rantor]

So was it any different with no immigrants in the middle ages? Even in Victorian times with few immigrants there was plenty of crime.

Indeed, even more recently. I grew up in an area when it had full employment and 99% indigenous population. Cartoon violence and crime were always endemic though....

[GreenerGrass]

I must say I'm pretty shocked by the disturbing content of some of the above posts, contractors travelling by bus?

You peasants. The only way to travel in London at night is in a black cab or a Range Rover Sport (and not the crummy TDI one, you want a supercharged V8).

I just saw on the news Croydon is to be the first London borough to have knife and gun detectors installed in schools and train stations. Its like putting a sticking plaster over an MRSA infected shotgun wound.

[Causus Deli]

So was it any different with no immigrants in the middle ages? Even in Victorian times with few immigrants there was plenty of crime.

Perhaps not but we've grown out of that and we don't need to import historical practices. The world has moved at different rates and why the hell would we wish to take two steps back and destabilise our society?

[Old Greg]

So was it any different with no immigrants in the middle ages? Even in Victorian times with few immigrants there was plenty of crime.

Indeed, the Victorian era is an excellent example. The link is between poverty and crime/disorder (not saying that all poor people are criminal or disorderly, or that all criminals and disorderly people are poor - just that there's a link). Immigration (IMHO) only links to crime/disorder via the link between immigration and poverty, which has various causes. But there are cultural and other social aspects in different groups that may mean that criminal / disorderly behaviour manifests itself in different ways. The example of this that causes most grief to me personally (except of course when I've had a few drinks, in which case it's mere high spirits) is the crazy aggressive drunkeness that afflicts so many city and town centres at weekends, that in my expereince is disproportionately a white phenomenon (and one that increasingly crosses class / economic divides). Football hooliganism is another disproportionately white phenomenon. I mention these examples not to suggest that white people are more problematic than non-whites but to offer some balance to the earlier posts mentioning various types of bad behaviour by members of ethnic minority groups.