Leaving

[NotAllThere]

not hard when you have a population less than greater london.

Oh it's easier... probably. The question was, having left, how do you feel the UK is doing. It wasn't an evaluation question. I moved to a country that has it easier. Does that help?

I'm sorry if this hurts, but you could think by the UK, I mean England. So you can blame the English. In London.

[ladymuck]

That said I imagine everywhere has its advantages and disadvantages. Scandinavia no doubt has a higher standard of living and public services but you pay more tax for the privilege. If that is a balance you and others are happy with then absolutely go for it but equally had Labour run on a manifesto of increasing taxes to improve public services last year they probably wouldn't have won.

True. I wonder if that's because the population don't trust any government (of whatever flavour) to actually deliver the reforms needed to make best use of the increased tax burden. When we hear "increased spending on public services" we immediately assume it's going to be wasted on vanity projects, jobs for cronies and white elephants (what's that today about some massive infrastructure project in the south-east when the north could do so much more with the money?).

We haven't had a government with a coherent plan for a long time. It's all sound bites and popularity contests while giving peerages to your favourite back scratchers.

I can't in all good conscience leave the UK because to do so would leave my brother with all the caring duties for my Mum.

[sadkingbilly]

True. I wonder if that's because the population don't trust any government (of whatever flavour) to actually deliver the reforms needed to make best use of the increased tax burden. When we hear "increased spending on public services" we immediately assume it's going to be wasted on vanity projects, jobs for cronies and white elephants (what's that today about some massive infrastructure project in the south-east when the north could do so much more with the money?).

We haven't had a government with a coherent plan for a long time. It's all sound bites and popularity contests while giving peerages to your favourite back scratchers.

I can't in all good conscience leave the UK because to do so would leave my brother with all the caring duties for my Mum.

Almost everywhere in Europe has much higher gross deductions* than UK, and people happily pay it in return for superior living standards.
Uk people (and especially the whining skinflints on here) expect everything for nothing, avoid paying as much tax as possible, etc etc.
People who, through no fault of their own, find themselves out of work/disabled/injured etc are treated as scroungers on 'benefits', even if they paid NI etc for years.
in more civilised places, Insurances are regarded as such, and no stigma attached when accessing them.
It's a Thatcherite mindset. **** everybody, as long as I'm OK.
and, yes, if i'm anything politically, it'll be socialist. (before the whining BTL owners get started.)
*tax, social insurance,religious tax(for NAT), etc.
I see no point in comparing countries.
My attitude is that I'll survive, and well, in whatever place and under whatever government I find myself.
So, like I said. do what you like.
I do.

[NotAllThere]

I can't in all good conscience leave the UK because to do so would leave my brother with all the caring duties for my Mum.

I left before my older sister was lumbered with such duties.

Almost everywhere in Europe has much higher gross deductions* than UK, and people happily pay it in return for superior living standards.
*tax, social insurance,religious tax(for NAT), etc.

No religious tax for me - I'm registered as "without confession", since I'm neither Catholic nor Reformed.
The tax and social insurance + health insurance combined still accounts for only around 25% of deductions.

I see no point in comparing countries.
My attitude is that I'll survive, and well, in whatever place and under whatever government I find myself.
So, like I said. do what you like.
I do.

A very sensible attitude, if I may say so.

[milanbenes]

agentzero

good luck and good for you difficult decisions easy life

btw

please don't tell too many people

everybody knows life in the UK is light years ahead of life on the mainland in all dimensions

perish the thought that the herd came and spoilt it for us

Milan.

[milanbenes]

I am not taking sides here, just an observation

whatever your "all round" standard of living is on the mainland, you'd need a much higher disposable income in the UK to have the same

what say all of ye to that

Milan.

[sadkingbilly]

I am not taking sides here, just an observation

whatever your "all round" standard of living is on the mainland, you'd need a much higher disposable income in the UK to have the same

what say all of ye to that

Milan.

in a word, bollards.

[milanbenes]

lol

exactly, the main thing is that everybody is happy with their lot - sorted.

Milan.

[edison]

NotAllThere
WTFH

I posted this in the Business forum but it has instead appeared in General.

sadkingbilly A lot of the very high earning contractors in the £800 to £1500+ per day range are looking to leave the UK. Oliverson, Edison, that's excluding those that don't post here but have moved and those who lurk but don't ever post.

Keep in mind that people can work from abroad on UK contracts, which I have already consistently seen across businesses. People are moving from the UK to work on multiple contracts, including for UK companies, while abroad, and it's all legally acceptable within Europe, as it should be.

agentzero Not sure where you got the idea I was looking to leave the UK LOL. Although I have worked quite a lot abroad (for UK based clients), I think I'm closer to deciding to retire early than leave the UK.

I don't really go for the high paying interim management type roles I used to do a few years ago. I know plenty of senior IT leaders with over 10 years more senior level experience than me who have been struggling to find work since the start of 2024.

[edison]

I'm upping and moving family abroad to Denmark where I've gradually moved one business. This gives easy access to Sweden and Norway under their Nordic trade agreements. Also moving a consulting firm over, which has been more difficult due to staffing, as you might expect. There are threads on this forum about people wanting to work and live abroad. Why?

The UK is gradually failing. That's why the decline is less noticeable, because it's happened since 2010. Police don't respond to calls about fraud unless it's very big in size, and even then it takes them years to enforce the law. Quality of life has decreased. Those hanging on to outside ir35 contracts are lucky, but the net is tightening and it looks like the game will soon be over. See threads posted in Business and look at this forum traffic statistics to see how far down it is from its heyday.

Fraud pays. Crime pays. It's sad, but you know it's true. The increase in fraud figures are not only well above inflation, but are many multiples of a decade ago. Crime pays. The most disturbing thing is that people seem to accept it. People like us complained a decade ago and we complain now, all the while taxes are at record high levels. That's it, complaining. Where's the action? Things are still broken, the police still aren't acting and the social contract is falling apart.

I have noticed on this forum that a lot of responses to people leaving are along the lines of "don't let the door hit you on the way out!" But what if the stream of people leaving increases and increases?

https://www.ft.com/content/c30f2603-...1-53fd340ed836

You can use a paywall removal website to view the subscription block.

No poll attached, but how will you go? What will you tolerate before you look at other countries? There is a "cope" used that "all countries are the same!" when talking about the negative prospects we see in the UK. Brexit reckoning and acknowledgement of its failure don't seem close. How long will people live in denial that the economic and quality of life prospects for the UK are distinctly negative?

No blaming immigrants. No blaming those on welfare. It's governmental and societal responsibility. Austerity began this UK failure and only acceptance and the need to find a solution will bring it back. Moaning about a government from 20 or 30 years ago is whataboutism.

There are a lot of country comparison websites, but if you use OurWorldInData, OECD and others you can quickly see that over the last three decades the UK has ruined its golden position and is now not a good place to live and bring up children unless you are very rich. This is the setup of failure, because social mobility is key to societal cohesion and better wealth prospects for all. The dangerous thing is becoming used to decline and low quality. Don't accept it.

If you read this and still think "don't let the door hit you on the way out" then explain to me why a child born in Germany, Sweden, Nederlands, Denmark and other places is far better off and better educated than the UK. It was absolutely not the case 20 to 30 years ago. Something worrying has happened and stonewalling the thought doesn't lead to a solution.

I'd be interested to read what NotAllThere and others who have all but fully emigrated think when they come back to the UK for visits. I will still try to post useful comments sometimes in the Business section, but I'm out. Good luck.

If you feel the same urge to better the prospects of your life and family then look at democracies. Don't trust those who judge based on emotion and prejudice, judge based on pure statistics. Use helpful resources, stats websites, and build evidence of your prospective country, which will lead you to avoid the likes of Dubai, Barbados, and the USA for obvious reasons:

https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org

https://rsf.org/en/index

https://ourworldindata.org

Those who do no investigation and love to complain are part of the problem. Vote with your feet.

I don't have any objective stats to counter your argument but anecdotally, I'm pretty sure that people from the likes of Germany, Sweden, Netherlands and Denmark have been been better educated than Brits for decades not just the last 20 years.

I worked a lot in continental Europe from the late 90s working with many people from those countries as well as the likes of Switzerland, Austria, Belgium and Eastern Europe and the level of education was on a different level to a lot of us Brits. Many of those Europeans had multiple degrees, spoke at least three languages etc and were just all round, very well educated.