Striving for peace!

[vetran]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e8gzyp8e2o

A senior Hamas official told the BBC that it will not participate in the indirect talks on a Gaza ceasefire and hostage release deal due to resume in Doha on Thursday.

The Palestinian armed group wanted a roadmap for implementing the agreement and would “not engage in negotiations for the sake of negotiations in order to provide cover for Israel to continue its war”, the official said.

He reiterated that the roadmap should be based on the proposed deal outlined by US President Joe Biden at the end of May and accused Israel of adding “new conditions”.

Try releasing the hostages before you kill them all and laying down your arms if you don't want Israel to continue removing terrorists.

Alternatively turn up at talks

[WTFH]

Try releasing the hostages before you kill them all and laying down your arms if you don't want Israel to continue removing terrorists.

Alternatively turn up at talks

Perhaps they'd like to see Israel stop bombing Gaza before talks could begin.
Maybe even letting foreign journalists in would be a useful sign.

But for some reason, your words portray that you've already made your mind up that independent verification and peace on all sides are not what you want.

[Zigenare]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e8gzyp8e2o




Try releasing the hostages before you kill them all and laying down your arms if you don't want Israel to continue removing terrorists.

Alternatively turn up at talks

Maybe the Israelis can release the Palestinians currently being held in prisons without charge, you know, as a show of faith?

[malvolio]

Perhaps they'd like to see Israel stop bombing Gaza before talks could begin.
Maybe even letting foreign journalists in would be a useful sign.

But for some reason, your words portray that you've already made your mind up that independent verification and peace on all sides are not what you want.

Or the reality is that the 40k civilian deaths* include quite a large proportion of the 20,000 Hamas soldiers hiding among them, that even the Gazas are getting pissed off with Hamas but until they are removed there simply cannot be any kind of peace. When you're facing a polar ear running at you, asking it to stop isn't going to work, you need a damn big gun.


* Which is, of course, a horrendous number under any circumstances, but let's be clear whose fault it is, ultimately. For comparison, Ukraine's civilian death toll is about the same, with the proviso that it could actually be much higher...

[WTFH]

When you're facing a polar (b)ear running at you, asking it to stop isn't going to work, you need a damn big gun.

One could argue that is exactly what those in Gaza have seen for the last 50 years.

[malvolio]

One could argue that is exactly what those in Gaza have seen for the last 50 years.

Except that is blatantly untrue. The Israelis left Gaza to its own devices many years ago, and have been employing Palestinians, including Gazans, for almost all that time, despite almost daily rocket attacks and the rest from inside the strip.

[vetran]

Perhaps they'd like to see Israel stop bombing Gaza before talks could begin.
Maybe even letting foreign journalists in would be a useful sign.

But for some reason, your words portray that you've already made your mind up that independent verification and peace on all sides are not what you want.

Ah the usual half truths one gets from the Arab's side:

Hamas have taken innocent civilians hostage many of which Hamas have and will continue to murder. Releasing them might be a good step.

Hamas & Palestinian mercenaries were the aggressors during a prolonged ceasefire on Oct 7th Hamas didn't want peace despite Israel and all Jews leaving Gaza in 2007. They even dug up Jewish bodies before they left because they fully expected the Palestinians to desecrate them.

Hamas have been shelling civilian areas in Israel daily for decades hence the Iron dome and knocking on the roof. Multiple countries invaded Israel and lost, now it is terrorists backed by Iran. Should we have stopped attacking the Germans before we got to Berlin?
Maybe Hamas should stop bombarding Israel with rockets made out of water pipes before peace talks? Why should they? Israel was willing to discuss peace while Hamas were shelling them just because Hamas are crap at it, they don't get a free pass.

This is all public knowledge recorded by multiple reporters and governments even the terrorists themselves.


Journalists are not banned by Israel, they are allowed on escorted tours just as journalists were in WW2, I suspect Israeli journalists can be embedded. Douglas Murray the BBC's Jeremy Bowen (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...-east-67362960) for instance have been to Gaza. Its a warzone! I think Israel are trying to avoid the Beeb going there and some of their reporters being beheaded by Hamas.

Israel blocked civilian access to Gaza on October 7 as the region was plunged into war by Hamas’s brutal attack on southern Israel, and since then only journalists already in the enclave, largely local freelancers, or those escorted by the military under tightly controlled conditions have managed to report from inside the enclave.

Similar happened in The Falklands, Iraq & Afghanistan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/collegeo...%20islands%2C% 20though,own%20as%20the%20Argentines%20surrendered .

They can also use local resources but be careful because many support Hamas or like free money and provide lies.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/26/12081...eeking-shelter

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox...ter-was-beyond

https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-c...ers-from-gaza/

Seems Egypt banned unfettered access as well - what have they got to hide?????????????

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68423995

A number of journalists who signed the letter have been reporting from Israel during the conflict.

In November, the BBC's international editor Jeremy Bowen travelled with Israeli forces into Gaza. While the BBC had editorial control of the report, the section with the Israeli forces was viewed by them.

When asked for comment on the letter, an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson said: "The IDF is currently conducting a war against the terror organisation Hamas.

"In order to allow journalists to report safely, the IDF accompanies them when in the battlefield."

Though to be fair the Beeb would hardly be much reduced if they could send who they want unescorted maybe we can have "Gazza in Gaza"? He can do a crisp advert while there. How about celebrity Bakeoff Gaza city Or "dancing on IEDs"?

The BBC seem to report from the "invaders" city of Tel-Aviv not Egypt or the Lebanon for some reason maybe there are better cocktails?

There are also reputable sources reporting from Israel and talking to the IDF.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/topic/the-daily-briefing/

They could also talk to many expats who will tell them how Hamas have infiltrated UNRWA and the schools and are indoctrinating Palestinian youth.

The hostages themselves have been interviewed by the world media and told of how they were mistreated.

The Americans have access to most of the military decisions and world experts are impressed by how few civilians are killed in this war. its roughly one civilian per combatant (estimated but as the combatants hide in schools/hospitals disguised as staff and fire from behind civilians it is difficult) the Americans used to wipe out whole villages to get one insurgent. The pre warning the Israeli's have committed to has massively increased their soldier's risks to save Palestinian lives.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-impl...pinion-1865613

It seems you are a either a bit thick or a Terrorist sympathiser who supports gang rape, beheading children, taking innocent hostages, shelling innocent civilians with rockets since 2007 ish that make V1's look accurate. You believe the unjustified demands for land such as Judea (yep that is where the name Jew comes from and where most Jews ancestors came from 3.5 millennia ago ) that the Egyptian Arabs (most Palestinians) make.

Personally I would like to see peace talks to help any innocent Palestinian's (those that didn't vote for or support Hamas) to live safely and rebuild their lives in Gaza.

I have no problem with Israel killing foreign terrorist leaders who have publicly stated they wish to exterminate the Jews then taken action to do so. Do you?

TLR -
Hamas have been shelling Israeli civilians daily for nearly 20 years and yet Israel have still come to the table every time.
Reporters are not banned from Gaza by Israel, they are offered and BBC reporters have taken escorted access (for their safety) just as they would be in any other war zone.
You sir are therefore talking Bollocks. There will be no peace with Hamas in charge they have proved that again and again.

[vetran]

One could argue that is exactly what those in Gaza have seen for the last 50 years.

No Hamas have being building rockets out of their water pipes and lobbing missiles at Israeli civilians.

In Gaza they had self rule since 2007 and no Jews in Gaza (seems to be a thing your friends demand).

Peace was available they just don't want it, pop quiz what does "from the river to the sea" mean?

[WTFH]

Except that is blatantly untrue. The Israelis left Gaza to its own devices many years ago, and have been employing Palestinians, including Gazans, for almost all that time, despite almost daily rocket attacks and the rest from inside the strip.

1948 - Palestinians flee Israel and go to Gaza
1967 - Israel captures Gaza
1990s - Israel blockades Gaza
2005 - Israel pulls its troops out
2007 - Israel's second blockade of Gaza
2008 - Israel launches air strikes on Gaza, sparking a war. Over 1100 Palestinians and 13 Israelis were killed.
2018 - Israel kills 480+ Palestinians for having a series of marches in Gaza, but near the border.

But sure, Israel, the military superpower, has never done any of that, it's all lies.

[WTFH]

Peace was available they just don't want it, pop quiz what does "from the river to the sea" mean?

It's that phrase that some Israelis use when they talk about where they would like their beach-side apartments to be built.