Striving for peace!

[vetran]

Good luck with that one - as soon as this conflict ends, Netanyahu goes to Prison, where's his incentive?

Israel defending itself is not the issue currently, preventing the continuing genocide in Gaza and the West Bank is the priority.

Oh dear we are in loopy loo territory now.

Genocide - explain how a steadily growing Palestinian population that Israel has taken impressive measures to avoid harming civilians (see the bit about west point) is suffering genocide?

The only genocidal party is Hamas whose stated intent in their charter and publicity is to eliminate Israel and kill as many Jews as they can. They even have bounties for dead Jews.

[saptastic]

Oh dear we are in loopy loo territory now.

Genocide - explain how a steadily growing Palestinian population that Israel has taken impressive measures to avoid harming civilians (see the bit about west point) is suffering genocide?

The only genocidal party is Hamas whose stated intent in their charter and publicity is to eliminate Israel and kill as many Jews as they can. They even have bounties for dead Jews.

+1.

One side wants peace - one wants genocide.
If Hamas put their weapons down there is a great chance of lasting peace.
If Israel put their weapons down they are all murdered.
If Israel wanted genocide it would have been finished in days.

Every person should want peace - but when you have ideology like ISIS or Hamas it is beyond difficult for everyone, especially the Palestinians.

[Zigenare]

Oh dear we are in loopy loo territory now.

Genocide - explain how a steadily growing Palestinian population that Israel has taken impressive measures to avoid harming civilians (see the bit about west point) is suffering genocide?

The only genocidal party is Hamas whose stated intent in their charter and publicity is to eliminate Israel and kill as many Jews as they can. They even have bounties for dead Jews.

I can see that there's no changing of your opinion so I shan't bother wasting my time.

[NotAllThere]

You were being glib in your initial response and you didn't have the balls to let your comment stand. Now as far as I am aware being anti-zionist is not illegal, correct me if I'm wrong.

For the benefit of the crowd, I responded initially to this.

Try doing some research instead of just spouting Zionist propaganda.

by replying

Try doing some research instead of just spouting Anti-Zionist propaganda.

I then decided it was rather glib, so posted something less glib. Sadly in the five seconds it took me to change my mind, Zigenare happened to see my post. Why he's making such a fuss about a post edited a few seconds after making it (which he knows as he quoted the edit, not the original), I really don't know. I'm sure we've all done it. But clearly it's made him cry into his cocoa.

There's nothing illegal about being pro-Zionist. Or even pro-Zionist propaganda. Or even anti-Zionist propaganda, so long as it doesn't slip into antisemitism.

Oh and this post was edited since first posting, so if you read it a minute ago, I apologise.

[vetran]

I can see that there's no changing of your opinion so I shan't bother wasting my time.

I do rather hope you change your opinion rather than supporting terrorists!

[Zigenare]

I do rather hope you change your opinion rather than supporting terrorists!

Oh dear, before you accuse me of an illegal act, where have I said or demonstrated that I support terrorists? Placing facts before your blinkered view is no more supporting terrorists than stating that Israel is overstepping its mark with its apartheid regime against the Palestinian people of Gaza and the West Bank.

Was not the ANC regarded as a "terrorist organisation" and Nelson Mandela once regarded as a terrorist? Sooner or later you have to deal with people, however they label themselves - contrary to yours and Israel's views, you can't wipe an ideology off the face of the planet.

[vetran]

Oh dear, before you accuse me of an illegal act, where have I said or demonstrated that I support terrorists? Placing facts before your blinkered view is no more supporting terrorists than stating that Israel is overstepping its mark with its apartheid regime against the Palestinian people of Gaza and the West Bank.

Was not the ANC regarded as a "terrorist organisation" and Nelson Mandela once regarded as a terrorist? Sooner or later you have to deal with people, however they label themselves - contrary to yours and Israel's views, you can't wipe an ideology off the face of the planet.

By repeating their lies you are supporting them. Hamas are trying to win the publicity war by pursuing "the big lie" in everything. When I see some facts from you I may change my mind. So far its just rehashed Hamas lies.

I have linked to world experts that explained why they are lies. There are documents, videos and testimonies that have convinced the relevant organisations that Israel are trying to prosecute the war as safely (for Palestinian civilians) at the cost of IDF soldiers lies.

In Israel there clearly is no Apartheid, an Arab (or any respectable non Jew) can be a Judge, Politician or Soldier that is not what happened in SA. There may be restrictions in Palestine but as many Palestinians were willing participants in Oct 7th that may explain them. Strangely Jews aren't welcome in many Arab states including Gaza & the west bank and haven't been since before the formation of Israel.

Nelson Mandela was a convicted terrorist by any measure, as was Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams was considered one but the British Government didn't prosecute him. The big difference was they decided to take part in the peace process. The key point in this thread is that Hamas do not want to discuss peace despite being offered all that they say they want (except strangely the eradication of Israel & the Jews).

https://omalley.nelsonmandela.org/in.../06lv02949.htm

No mention of gang raping festival goers or chopping kids heads off from Mandela. Whilst the IRA liked mortar attacks they weren't daily into civilian areas like Hamas do, they went after No10.

Did you bother to watch the Youtube video about how Hamas & UNRWA are indoctrinating children and rewarding terrorist acts? It had pictures! The only way to stop that is remove both organisations. As I say I prefer Israel survive to a Hamas run Palestine.

[Zigenare]

By repeating their lies you are supporting them. Hamas are trying to win the publicity war by pursuing "the big lie" in everything. When I see some facts from you I may change my mind. So far its just rehashed Hamas lies.

I have linked to world experts that explained why they are lies. There are documents, videos and testimonies that have convinced the relevant organisations that Israel are trying to prosecute the war as safely (for Palestinian civilians) at the cost of IDF soldiers lies.

In Israel there clearly is no Apartheid, an Arab (or any respectable non Jew) can be a Judge, Politician or Soldier that is not what happened in SA. There may be restrictions in Palestine but as many Palestinians were willing participants in Oct 7th that may explain them. Strangely Jews aren't welcome in many Arab states including Gaza & the west bank and haven't been since before the formation of Israel.

Nelson Mandela was a convicted terrorist by any measure, as was Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams was considered one but the British Government didn't prosecute him. The big difference was they decided to take part in the peace process. The key point in this thread is that Hamas do not want to discuss peace despite being offered all that they say they want (except strangely the eradication of Israel & the Jews).

https://omalley.nelsonmandela.org/in.../06lv02949.htm

No mention of gang raping festival goers or chopping kids heads off from Mandela. Whilst the IRA liked mortar attacks they weren't daily into civilian areas like Hamas do, they went after No10.

Did you bother to watch the Youtube video about how Hamas & UNRWA are indoctrinating children and rewarding terrorist acts? It had pictures! The only way to stop that is remove both organisations. As I say I prefer Israel survive to a Hamas run Palestine.

Ok, get in touch with the Police and report me for the crime of supporting a terrorist group and see how far you get.

In the meantime, how's this for a fact?

"Declaration of President Salam
In his declaration, President Salam states that he shares both the conclusions reached by the Court in this Advisory Opinion and the underlying reasoning. The purpose of his declaration is to set out additional reasons which, in his view, help to justify the Court’s conclusions, in particular the unlawfulness of Israel’s continued presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and the subsequent obligation to put an end to it as rapidly as possible.
President Salam first discusses two of Israel’s illegal policies and practices in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. With regard to settlement, he highlights the elements proving that Israel was in full knowledge of the illegality of this policy and the measures that accompanied it. Thus, as early as September 1967, the legal adviser to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and later various United Nations bodies and institutions warned Israel of the unlawful nature of settlement and other related practices. The declaration also examines Israel’s discriminatory laws and measures in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, demonstrating that they are tantamount to the crime of apartheid. Israel has committed numerous inhumane acts in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, which the Opinion unambiguously identifies, as part of an institutionalized régime of systematic oppression and domination of one racial group over another."

If you wish to read the whole judgement it can be found here (https://www.icj-cij.org/node/204176)

[vetran]

Ok, get in touch with the Police and report me for the crime of supporting a terrorist group and see how far you get.

In the meantime, how's this for a fact?

"Declaration of President Salam
In his declaration, President Salam states that he shares both the conclusions reached by the Court in this Advisory Opinion and the underlying reasoning. The purpose of his declaration is to set out additional reasons which, in his view, help to justify the Court’s conclusions, in particular the unlawfulness of Israel’s continued presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and the subsequent obligation to put an end to it as rapidly as possible.
President Salam first discusses two of Israel’s illegal policies and practices in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. With regard to settlement, he highlights the elements proving that Israel was in full knowledge of the illegality of this policy and the measures that accompanied it. Thus, as early as September 1967, the legal adviser to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and later various United Nations bodies and institutions warned Israel of the unlawful nature of settlement and other related practices. The declaration also examines Israel’s discriminatory laws and measures in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, demonstrating that they are tantamount to the crime of apartheid. Israel has committed numerous inhumane acts in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, which the Opinion unambiguously identifies, as part of an institutionalized régime of systematic oppression and domination of one racial group over another."

If you wish to read the whole judgement it can be found here (https://www.icj-cij.org/node/204176)

So now we agree there is no systemic apartheid or genocide in Palestine perpetrated by Israel?

When did Israel or Palestine join the ICJ?

When did ownership of Gaza & west Jordan pass from Israel (who own it after the failed attack in 67) to Hamas - the only government in Palestine?

Does the ICJ recommend gang rape and butchering kids as a resolution?

Why does Israel have to be in Gaza?

Why when Israel has offered the property repeatedly in peace processes is was it refused?

[saptastic]

Ok, get in touch with the Police and report me for the crime of supporting a terrorist group and see how far you get.

In the meantime, how's this for a fact?

"Declaration of President Salam
In his declaration, President Salam states that he shares both the conclusions reached by the Court in this Advisory Opinion and the underlying reasoning. The purpose of his declaration is to set out additional reasons which, in his view, help to justify the Court’s conclusions, in particular the unlawfulness of Israel’s continued presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and the subsequent obligation to put an end to it as rapidly as possible.
President Salam first discusses two of Israel’s illegal policies and practices in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. With regard to settlement, he highlights the elements proving that Israel was in full knowledge of the illegality of this policy and the measures that accompanied it. Thus, as early as September 1967, the legal adviser to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and later various United Nations bodies and institutions warned Israel of the unlawful nature of settlement and other related practices. The declaration also examines Israel’s discriminatory laws and measures in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, demonstrating that they are tantamount to the crime of apartheid. Israel has committed numerous inhumane acts in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, which the Opinion unambiguously identifies, as part of an institutionalized régime of systematic oppression and domination of one racial group over another."

If you wish to read the whole judgement it can be found here (https://www.icj-cij.org/node/204176)

“ICJ Chief Judge Nawaf Salam, who presided over today’s opinion, has twice been a candidate for prime minister of Lebanon, once with Hezbollah’s support, since joining the court in 2018. It ignores Israel’s right of self-defense and deeply undermines the principle, established by the Security Council and Oslo Accords, that Israel need withdraw from territories occupied in its 1967 war of self-defense only in exchange for peace. The opinion’s rationale gravely undercuts the ability to defend themselves again terrorism of not only Israel but also the United States and its NATO allies.”

As I have said one side is desperate for security and peace. One side teaches children to kill.
President Bush spent so much time trying to get to a peace agreement where the israeli president gave so much - against the will of his people.
This was all answered by bombings and killings and Bush exhausted said I have come to realise that unfortuantely Arafat and the Palestinians dont want peace.

Israel had under Trump signed peace agreements with UAE, Bahrain etc establishing amazing trade and tourist links with these countries.
They were going to sign with Saudi Arabia - which is why Iran got their proxies to attack and turn the world against Israel as they knew it would lead to war.
Pre October 7th the Middle East was starting to see real peace. But Irans leaders are extremists and want death to Israel and the West. And they use the palestinians as fodder for this. This is why Egypt do not allow Gazans to cross into their country. Yet pre October 7th Gazans worked in Israel. Its all a play by extremist leaders in Iran.

The list goes on.... you need to please see what this is all about and understand that Israel has survived wars, attack after attack from all its neighbours over so many years and understands more than any other country the immense threats it faces and need for self defence.