Make Britain Great Again

[vetran]

The Right/Left debate over immigration is and always has been a sideshow, a simple way to categorise the political landscape for simple people

The left are actually about taking from the rich and giving to the poor - redistribution is the actual term they use - whereas the right is basically about letting the rich create the wealth in the economy to benefit everyone. It was Marx that labelled the right wing approach as something reprehensible and invented the left wing approach.

That approach has its appeal, but it's never really been made to work. Most left wing regimes still have a very wealthy uber class, the difference being that the wealth stays there rather than being spread around the population. Scandinavia is one of the few regions where the left wing approach actually works, but mainly because there is a strong work ethic (and a high tax bill for all).

The other issue is that both sides of the fence have allowed the growth of a culture where if you don't work, for various reasons, some of which are a little dubious, then don't worry, the state - i.e. the rest of us - will bail you out.

The net result is far too much of GDP being tied up with people who simply won't put themselves out to earn money (obviously excepting the many who genuinely can't of course).

What we won't see from Labour is a meaningful attempt to correct that imbalance, it's simply not in their mindset. So it's the good old worker (not the one defined by Starmer, the real ones) who will have to pick up the bill. And the real problem with immigration is not the ones who come here to work for a living, it's the dependents and illegals who are simply adding to the welfare overhead.

The thing about many left wing people miss is the multinationals use imported labour to depress labour rates and thanks to Gordon B'ruin's subsidies getting the UK tax payer to pay This was frequently EU labour at cut rates, everyone was shocked when the truck drivers finally got paid above minimum wage when the eastern European drivers left.

I suspect many of the workers are employed illegally and still claim, there is little sanction. Personally I would start teams call based back to work clubs that tie people up during the day so they lose their 'grey economy' jobs.

[cojak]

In which case you would see the rich supporting them - which you don't. The rich only support the Tories, in the main.

Well we’ll find out about that, won’t we? Parliamentary rules means that they will have to declare who their donors are.

[cojak]

I suspect many of the workers are employed illegally and still claim, there is little sanction. Personally I would start teams call based back to work clubs that tie people up during the day so they lose their 'grey economy' jobs.

I’ve never understood why the parties don’t push mandatory photo ID for all citizens. Unregulated working practices mean that people disappear into the system. This often a push for migrants leaving France as it’s difficult to find work without proper documentation.

[WTFH]

Just want to check something here: 49% of voters should be ignored because it’s “the will of the people”, but now 14% of the voters should define how the country is run because of some reason or other.

The man is like Trump - a complete imbecile and a joke, but one who knows how to manipulate the media and the easily influenced.

[SueEllen]

I’ve never understood why the parties don’t push mandatory photo ID for all citizens. Unregulated working practices mean that people disappear into the system. This often a push for migrants leaving France as it’s difficult to find work without proper documentation.

ID cards have been brought during WW1 and WW2. The government tried to keep them after WW2 but were challenged in Court, up to the House of Lords, due to how a police officer was demanding ID papers from a man so they were abandoned in 1952.

Major's government wanted to introduce them, then Blair's government finally did for foreign nationals. They were made to abandon them due to legal challenges.

Many people don't want all their information co-ordinated on one UK government database. Scandals plus simple things like credit scoring show what can go wrong when companies and organisations are given access and control to our person information.

Imagine having that co-ordinated to one database. If you had the same name and birth date as someone else who is a fraudster you could easily be mixed up with them every where if there was one database behind it. At least now when credit referring agencies make mistakes government bodies don't rely solely on their data.

[SueEllen]

Just want to check something here: 49% of voters should be ignored because it’s “the will of the people”, but now 14% of the voters should define how the country is run because of some reason or other.

The man is like Trump - a complete imbecile and a joke, but one who knows how to manipulate the media and the easily influenced.

That's why the Lib Dems learnt to play within the rules.

Reform and the Greens need to do likewise in 2029 to get more elected MPs.

[vetran]

ID cards have been brought during WW1 and WW2. The government tried to keep them after WW2 but were challenged in Court, up to the House of Lords, due to how a police officer was demanding ID papers from a man so they were abandoned in 1952.

Major's government wanted to introduce them, then Blair's government finally did for foreign nationals. They were made to abandon them due to legal challenges.

Many people don't want all their information co-ordinated on one UK government database. Scandals plus simple things like credit scoring show what can go wrong when companies and organisations are given access and control to our person information.

Imagine having that co-ordinated to one database. If you had the same name and birth date as someone else who is a fraudster you could easily be mixed up with them every where if there was one database behind it. At least now when credit referring agencies make mistakes government bodies don't rely solely on their data.

You sure about that? I have seen plenty of poorly managed person data public & Private.

Maybe the Government could do Births, deaths,emigration/immigration,deed poll,gender change, divorces and issue a unique number then police it?


HMRC & NHS have pretty much given up.

[edison]

The real problem is organisations doing things badly. Technology gives you massive opportunities to save costs and improve service. Those companies that won't use it to do that will wither.

Amazon provides a superb service at minimal cost. I remembered how much better they are when I placed an order for an obscure part and was offered a week's delivery, no portal, no phone number etc.

Minimial chargeable cost to you as a customer maybe but Amazon spent approximately£235B on technology and infrastructure expenses in the last five years, i.e. massive investment.

In contrast, the NHS was given £2B in Spring 2024 for technology transformation. In 2022, £2B was also allocated to improving electronic patient records, something the NHS has been grappling with since at least the late 90s.

I was offered a role at one of the largest NHS trusts in the country a few years ago and turned it down after concluding it all sounded very tulip. I have several friends who work in NHS IT including what used to be NHSX, that was responsible for technology transformation. They do some interesting things but the stumbling block always seems to be so many old systems, taking years to sort out anything to do with data sharing and 'cultural resistance' as tech is done to users.

I really don't know what the answer is or whether comparable countries with large public healthcare systems have much better technology.

[BlasterBates]

The thing about many left wing people miss is the multinationals use imported labour to depress labour rates and thanks to Gordon B'ruin's subsidies getting the UK tax payer to pay This was frequently EU labour at cut rates, everyone was shocked when the truck drivers finally got paid above minimum wage when the eastern European drivers left.

I suspect many of the workers are employed illegally and still claim, there is little sanction. Personally I would start teams call based back to work clubs that tie people up during the day so they lose their 'grey economy' jobs.

Truck drivers in the EU get paid more than in the UK:

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/10...the-most-money

[vetran]

Minimial chargeable cost to you as a customer maybe but Amazon spent approximately£235B on technology and infrastructure expenses in the last five years, i.e. massive investment.

In contrast, the NHS was given £2B in Spring 2024 for technology transformation. In 2022, £2B was also allocated to improving electronic patient records, something the NHS has been grappling with since at least the late 90s.

I was offered a role at one of the largest NHS trusts in the country a few years ago and turned it down after concluding it all sounded very tulip. I have several friends who work in NHS IT including what used to be NHSX, that was responsible for technology transformation. They do some interesting things but the stumbling block always seems to be so many old systems, taking years to sort out anything to do with data sharing and 'cultural resistance' as tech is done to users.

I really don't know what the answer is or whether comparable countries with large public healthcare systems have much better technology.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...e-by-industry/

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight...nd%20medicines.

so £181 billion with 15% to be spent?

Having just used the NHS extensively it is still disorganised and offering poor customer service away from medical staff. Clinically individuals appear good.

Updating service standards to the levels you would expect in most modern service industries would reduce cost and improve customer experience. Data sharing was tulip as well.