The Autumn Statement 2023

[malvolio]

We just need to give them another chance, eh?
They've only had 13 years, that's not long enough.
Give them another chance.
Everyone will be worse than them.

That's just a lazy soundbite that ignores reality. I could poke several holes in that thesis to explain why we are where we are, but there would be little point.

Sadly the next election will be decided on just such SM-derived criteria.

[vetran]

We just need to give them another chance, eh?
They've only had 13 years, that's not long enough.
Give them another chance.
Everyone will be worse than them.

hey we are caught between a pit of despair and a pile of pooh - what a choice.

[malvolio]

hey we are caught between a pit of despair and a pile of pooh - what a choice.

Bit like America really, choosing between someone detached from reality and someone who says what he thinks people want to hear. Only difference is ours are thirty years younger!

[WTFH]

That's just a lazy soundbite that ignores reality. I could poke several holes in that thesis to explain why we are where we are, but there would be little point.

Sadly the next election will be decided on just such SM-derived criteria.

You mean the criteria of 13 years of dodging responsibility, promising the world and delivering nothing?
If you think that repeating the same mistake and hoping for a different outcome is the way forward, then keep voting for the Tufton Street/Sun/Express/Mail/Telegraph/GBeebies parties.

Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a change. And it's not sad that the next election should be decided by the last decade plus of failures, people should be held to account.

[WTFH]

hey we are caught between a pit of despair and a pile of pooh - what a choice.

I agree.
But we've had pooh for too long, so long that it's being pumped into our rivers and seas, and we're told we need to pay more to stop it (or just to keep the precious shareholders in their dividends, while we're in the pooh).

[jamesbrown]

I agree a dividend tax has been imposed on monies taken for personal income by the Tories, so they didn't have to increase Income Tax as per their manifesto. That was a major irritant rather than a major imposition. However it was Labour who applied it to pensions funds by cancelling their exemption to such taxes, ruining quite a lot of very significant things in the process.

I may be over-optimistic about Tory plans, but I have seen nothing in the last 60 years to persuade me to be optimistic about Labour's.

Your propensity to defend almost anything the Tories do as "not as bad as Labour" is intellectually weak and akin to political activism. Personally, I prefer to judge political parties on their actual record in gov't and the credibility of their promises. I'll probably vote for the Tories again when they rediscover their ability to actually "conserve" anything and not govern like a clownshoe. In the mean time, I'll be happy to vote for Labour (whether directly or indirectly) in the full knowledge that they will hammer contractors to roughly the same degree, or somewhat more, than the Tories, with the upside of not governing like a clownshoe.

[malvolio]

Your propensity to defend almost anything the Tories do as "not as bad as Labour" is intellectually weak and akin to political activism. Personally, I prefer to judge political parties on their actual record in gov't and the credibility of their promises. I'll probably vote for the Tories again when they rediscover their ability to actually "conserve" anything and not govern like a clownshoe. In the mean time, I'll be happy to vote for Labour (whether directly or indirectly) in the full knowledge that they will hammer contractors to roughly the same degree, or somewhat more, than the Tories, with the upside of not governing like a clownshoe.

OK. Every Labour government since WW2 has left the economy in a worse state than it was when they took power. We have not seen any promises from Labour yet, just a string of soundbites centred on "You're doing it wrong". Fairly soon they will have to start proposing alternatives. And if you want a bad Tory government as a counter proposal, then look to Heath and Major; they make Sunak look competent.

And of course, let's ignore the over-extended economy when the coalition took power, Brexit, the pandemic and the little skirmish in Crimea and Ukraine, none of which were faced by the current' gang's recent predecessors but all have which have affected the last 13 years.

I'm not sure who is the bigger supporter of mediocrity, you or me (probably me!), but in my case it's not based on blind faith.

[JustKeepSwimming]

OK. Every Labour government since WW2 has left the economy in a worse state than it was when they took power. We have not seen any promises from Labour yet, just a string of soundbites centred on "You're doing it wrong". Fairly soon they will have to start proposing alternatives. And if you want a bad Tory government as a counter proposal, then look to Heath and Major; they make Sunak look competent.

And of course, let's ignore the over-extended economy when the coalition took power, Brexit, the pandemic and the little skirmish in Crimea and Ukraine, none of which were faced by the current' gang's recent predecessors but all have which have affected the last 13 years.

I'm not sure who is the bigger supporter of mediocrity, you or me (probably me!), but in my case it's not based on blind faith.

So Labour inheriting public services that are on their deathbed necessitating increasing in spending gets blamed on Tories?

[SueEllen]

So Labour inheriting public services that are on their deathbed necessitating increasing in spending gets blamed on Tories?

Do you ever feel like you are wasting your time?

[WTFH]

... in my case it's not based on blind faith.

Except you're saying we must always have a Tory government, because only the Tory government can ever do anything good for the country, no one else should ever be considered.

If that isn't blind faith, I don't know what is!