Energy crisis solved

[d000hg]

I don't think she said anything about fiscal responsibility, rather the exact opposite. Rishi was pushing fiscal responsibility, Truss was pushing fiscal loosening and monetary tightening.

Vast government borrowing on the never-never flies totally in the face of some traditional (and the more right wing) conservative values of fiscal responsibility and government interference in the free market.

As a moderate I have no problem with it - if Liz had said this was her plan I would have possibly had far more support for her as leader. All her campaigning seemed to be saying the way to fix the crisis was to reduce taxes and so on. This is an actual, practical plan which could win her tremendous popular support so why didn't she campaign on it?

[jamesbrown]

Vast government borrowing on the never-never flies totally in the face of some traditional (and the more right wing) conservative values of fiscal responsibility and government interference in the free market.

As a moderate I have no problem with it - if Liz had said this was her plan I would have possibly had far more support for her as leader. All her campaigning seemed to be saying the way to fix the crisis was to reduce taxes and so on. This is an actual, practical plan which could win her tremendous popular support so why didn't she campaign on it?

No, she was very clear that "austerity" was not on the agenda at all. Levelling up, yep. Pension triple lock, yep. More money on the NHS, yep. Literally the only attempt to reduce spending was the regional pay boards, and she rowed back on that instantly. She did not promise fiscal responsibility at all. I mean, Rishi spent most of his campaign berating her for it and calling it inflationary (the combination of extra spending and tax cuts). She promised fiscal loosening and monetary tightening. You can argue about whether it's a "fairy story" or "unconservative", but the facts matter.

Regarding her energy policy specifically, you probably have a point because she was very coy about that during the campaign and it turns out to be way bigger than anything Labour would've done (or, at least, advertised upfront) and not exactly traditionally Conservative, depending on how you view the current energy market (as being free or not) and whether free market principles should also be pursued in a rigged market.

[dsc]

That is not the plan (according to the vast majority of reports), rather via general taxation.

And here's where the clash is with her "lets lower taxes" approach. How exactly are those two going to work?

Also if this ### billion "handout" is just for standard customers, what are they planning for businesses? cause I'm sure loads will fold if they get no help (actually loads will fold anyways imho considering people will still be saving and spending less).

[jamesbrown]

And here's where the clash is with her "lets lower taxes" approach. How exactly are those two going to work?

Also if this ### billion "handout" is just for standard customers, what are they planning for businesses? cause I'm sure loads will fold if they get no help (actually loads will fold anyways imho considering people will still be saving and spending less).

It isn't going to work, not in the long-term, which is probably why the markets are not reacting tremendously well (although that is partly about dollar strength too).

Regarding businesses, the consequence of fixing the wholesale price is that it is fixed for everyone, people and businesses. That's why it's so expensive. Not sure what happens for those people and businesses that have already fixed their prices, I assume they get to lump it.

[hugebrain]

And here's where the clash is with her "lets lower taxes" approach. How exactly are those two going to work?

Also if this ### billion "handout" is just for standard customers, what are they planning for businesses? cause I'm sure loads will fold if they get no help (actually loads will fold anyways imho considering people will still be saving and spending less).

It works by inflation. Cut taxes by 2%, raise inflation by 10% and the government has more money to spend (since inflation is really another tax). Inflation is also a way of transferring money from the workers to the idle rich - also good from the Conservatives’ point of view.

Not sure about other businesses, but I’m considering switching off my laptop
overnight.

Update: businesses to get the free money too.

Business idea: quit contracting and instead buy batteries which you can charge up with subsidized electricity which you then sell back to the grid at a profit.

[mattster]

Vast government borrowing on the never-never flies totally in the face of some traditional (and the more right wing) conservative values of fiscal responsibility and government interference in the free market.

As a moderate I have no problem with it - if Liz had said this was her plan I would have possibly had far more support for her as leader. All her campaigning seemed to be saying the way to fix the crisis was to reduce taxes and so on. This is an actual, practical plan which could win her tremendous popular support so why didn't she campaign on it?

Personally I think it is obscene that we are borrowing this amount of money without clawing any of it back from the energy companies, who are engaged in nothing better than war-time profiteering IMO. We are, or should be, on a war footing and the idea that as a nation we are shovelling an extra £170bn into energy company coffers, many of whom haven't seen a change in energy production costs at all, is bonkers. Don't get me started on the inter-generational theft side of it as well - yet another cost that will be avoided by the richest in society (pensioners) and passed on to the kids. Sickening for them, good for the Tory base vote.

[dsc]

So they decided to cap the bills yearly at £2500 which is a much more retarded idea as it removes the incentive to reduce usage whoever pays circa £2500 per year now is probably going to go "eh well feck it then, no need to watch what's on any more". Roll out the blackouts in winter...

[SueEllen]

So they decided to cap the bills yearly at £2500 which is a much more retarded idea as it removes the incentive to reduce usage whoever pays circa £2500 per year now is probably going to go "eh well feck it then, no need to watch what's on any more". Roll out the blackouts in winter...

Some people still can't afford that.

[vetran]

Some people still can't afford that.

indeed but its better than the alternative.

[PCTNN]

So they decided to cap the bills yearly at £2500 which is a much more retarded idea as it removes the incentive to reduce usage whoever pays circa £2500 per year now is probably going to go "eh well feck it then, no need to watch what's on any more". Roll out the blackouts in winter...

it doesn't work like that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58090533