Welcome to Gilead

[ladymuck]

What % of abortions are from pregnancies due to rape or abuse Sue? You can't generalise the argument based on edge cases.

Most men aren't aware the toll caring for a baby has on a single woman's mind and body but yes, we are 100% qualified to have our say that they shouldn't kill the baby. Neither of us is attracted to small children and cannot really understand the toll that takes on a pedophile who struggles with their desires, but we both feel 100% qualified to have our say that it is wrong for them to abuse a child.

I'm not Sue.

Rape-related pregnancy is about 5% based on this study. 50% of those went on to have an abortion. 5.9% gave the child up for adoption. I am sure there are other stats to prove whatever point you'd like to make.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/

Nice to see you equate abortion to paedophilia.

[vetran]

Those weren't my arguments.

My arguments are on:

• women who miscarry. They aren't allowed to have D&C or any other surgery if there is a heart beat. Like the case of Savita Halappanavar in Ireland and this recent case - https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...abort-85635929 Reading more the ethnic/racial disparities around healthcare in the US mean that more non-white women are going to die in pregnancy. (I already know about them in the UK.)
• Those who have have genetic testing and find that their child isn't compatible with life. All genetic testing takes place after the pregnancy is know to be viable.
• Those who have cancer, any other life threatening condition or serious injury. They aren't allowed to have treatment that risks the pregnancy until the baby is born and it may be too late afterwards.

Btw miscarriage isn't an edge case it is very common. 1 in 8 pregnancies according to the NHS.


No because it just isn't the child's life you are talking about you are talking about, particularly in the US and UK about women of colour's, but in fact any women's right to life and right not to have life changing injuries.

You are basically stating you have a right to kill me over a non-viable pregnancy.

As I have already said crime related (Rape, incest, abuse etc) and physical health related abortions are probably ones that should be allowed based on medical decisions only. I would expect pregnancies that risk the mothers health to be aborted as needed.

However 99.8% are done on grounds C from my earlier mansplaining so absolutely nothing to do with physical health.

[SueEllen]

As I have already said crime related (Rape, incest, abuse etc) and physical health related abortions are probably ones that should be allowed based on medical decisions only. I would expect pregnancies that risk the mothers health to be aborted as needed.

However 99.8% are done on grounds C from my earlier mansplaining so absolutely nothing to do with physical health.

So you don't value mental health then?

Women don't go to back street abortionists or get abortion drugs for fun.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3134915/

So you don't count learning disabilities?

[ladymuck]

As I have already said crime related (Rape, incest, abuse etc) and physical health related abortions are probably ones that should be allowed based on medical decisions only. I would expect pregnancies that risk the mothers health to be aborted as needed.

However 99.8% are done on grounds C from my earlier mansplaining so absolutely nothing to do with physical health.

Ground C being:
"That the pregnancy has NOT exceeded its 24th week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman."

Which, according to you, has nothing to do with physical health? I took that directly from the link you provided, section 4.7
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...and-wales-2020

[vetran]

I'm not Sue.

Rape-related pregnancy is about 5% based on this study. 50% of those went on to have an abortion. 5.9% gave the child up for adoption. I am sure there are other stats to prove whatever point you'd like to make.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/

Nice to see you equate abortion to paedophilia.

The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator.

Compared to overall pregnancies 3,613,647 what is that 1 in 100 pregnancies? As above by all means permit abortions in rape cases.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm

[vetran]

Ground C being:
"That the pregnancy has NOT exceeded its 24th week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman."

Which, according to you, has nothing to do with physical health? I took that directly from the link you provided, section 4.7
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...and-wales-2020

If you notice I also quoted this from the same link 99.9% is mental health. so 1 in 1000 may be physical, which I wouldn't argue with proceeding.

The vast majority (99.9%) of abortions carried out under ground C alone were reported as being performed because of a risk to the woman's mental health. These were classified as F99 (mental disorder, not otherwise specified) under the International Classification of Disease version 10 (ICD-10).

You are arguing for abortion on demand, it doesn't seem to be working maybe rethink it a bit?

[SueEllen]

Compared to overall pregnancies 3,613,647 what is that 1 in 100 pregnancies? As above by all means permit abortions in rape cases.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm

You are basically say we should have abortion law like Japan.

Where if the male partner refuses to give consent or disappears, the woman is screwed.

No wonder suicide is the leading cause of death in Japan in women between the ages of 15-34.

[ladymuck]

Compared to overall pregnancies 3,613,647 what is that 1 in 100 pregnancies? As above by all means permit abortions in rape cases.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm

I don't know how many people have abortions and don't say they're the result of rape because, oh let me think, women are quite often blamed for being raped so let's just pile on a bit more shame to an already traumatic experience. But yeah as it's only 1 in 100 pregnancies, it's just an edge case that we shouldn't care about because the man that raped her doesn't get a say in the matter.

All scenarios matter. It's never a decision taken lightly and for a man to claim equal rights in the matter is wrong.

What other female bodily functions that men are lucky enough to not have to deal with would you like to control?

[vetran]

You are basically say we should have abortion law like Japan.

Where if the male partner refuses to give consent or disappears, the woman is screwed.

No wonder suicide is the leading cause of death in Japan in women between the ages of 15-34.

Now that might be a compelling argument if proven true as the cause.

[vetran]

I don't know how many people have abortions and don't say they're the result of rape because, oh let me think, women are quite often blamed for being raped so let's just pile on a bit more shame to an already traumatic experience. But yeah as it's only 1 in 100 pregnancies, it's just an edge case that we shouldn't care about because the man that raped her doesn't get a say in the matter.

All scenarios matter. It's never a decision taken lightly and for a man to claim equal rights in the matter is wrong.

What other female bodily functions that men are lucky enough to not have to deal with would you like to control?

Who said anything about equal rights? This morning you and Sue made it very clear you believed men had absolutely no rights in the matter and if any man dared to suggest they may have an interest they are clearly a rapist and abuser. The figures have proven you wrong.

As we are doing aggressive - How many little children are you prepared to murder before we actually have a sensible discussion and work out how to reduce unwanted pregnancies and support fathers rights?