Keep your opinions to yourself sir!

[d000hg]

ISTR that it takes 20 tonnes of grass to produce a tonne of beef.

Anyway, the whole problem is that kids these days aren't taught to think, they are taught to pass exams, and exams that are written to a very precise (and very limited) agenda*. And what's worse, their teachers are products of the same process, so they lack the verbal and intellectual knowledge

That may be the case, but you suggest this wasn't the case before. Schools have moved if anything away from rote learning. They actually promote class discussion - which traditionally wouldn't be the case - the only problem being that everyone tends to think the same thing

[malvolio]

That may be the case, but you suggest this wasn't the case before. Schools have moved if anything away from rote learning. They actually promote class discussion - which traditionally wouldn't be the case - the only problem being that everyone tends to think the same thing

Catch-22. The person leading the discussion has a limited and not-fully informed view of the world, plus the usual prejudices of the modern Left (I know many teachers, they are almost all cast from the same mould). As a proto-Neanderthal grammar school pupil myself, I was involved in many discussions and debates, but I was taught by teachers who had been out in the real world (almost all would have done National Service at the very least) and were working to a much looser curriculum that they could deliver in any way they thought best.

Yes, there was rote learning but only of the basic mechanics of words and arithmetic which were then used to understand deeper subjects. They did no harm since they were not the end objective unlike, say, schools ipre-1939. Mr Gradgrind was redundant a long time ago.

So yes, I admit my views are almost certainly well out of date in the modern world; but I suggest I had a far better and wider education than any current 20-year old.

[d000hg]

I was schooled up until ~2000 and I cannot remember a single discussion about the world or how we thought about it. We just learned the curriculum. Now some of that material is quite valuable - modern history for instance - but we were never encouraged to consider our views on anything.
And I went to several good private schools during my childhood, in various parts of the country... I'd say I had good teachers but "so what do YOU think about X" literally never happened.

Given my teachers were in their 30s-50s back then I don't think we can say they were modern left (or modern anything). We can assume they were left-leaning but that is the nature of the world.

The right rail about children being indoctrinated in leftist thinking at schools, but we never run out of right-wing people. It's good for children to experience bias that isn't just their parents' IMO.

[SueEllen]

I was schooled up until ~2000 and I cannot remember a single discussion about the world or how we thought about it. We just learned the curriculum.

Older than you.

Anyway I went to a state comp and we randomly had debates. As we were a diverse lot, pupils and teachers held different views about everything. Also not all the teachers had just been teachers.

At primary school I had to suffer creationists and Buddhists. They didn't talk about their views unless you asked a random question, which could be in any subject, that hit a nerve. Other teachers kept their mouths firmly shut and never mentioned whether they were teaching something they didn't believe in.

[d000hg]

Older than you.

Anyway I went to a state comp and we randomly had debates. As we were a diverse lot, pupils and teachers held different views about everything. Also not all the teachers had just been teachers.

I think it's a shame this isn't more common in the UK. My schools were all pretty academically focused - and on the traditional subjects so we didn't "General Studies", etc. Lots of bright people who ended up at top universities, we could've had great chat if prompted/pushed - and in hindsight that would surely make us more interesting to Oxbridge where everyone has top marks and they look for other things.

[northernladuk]

Not to sure it's worth having a heated debate on what they teach or eat in schools or if there is issues indoctrinating them and so on. Many of them will go to university which will f**k them up royally anyway so small potatoes what happens before then.

[d000hg]

Many of them will go to university which will f**k them up royally anyway

It will? In which way?

[northernladuk]

It will? In which way?

They'll come back with all sorts of crazy ideas in their heads. If you want to be immersed in complete wokery then Uni is the best place for it now.

No point arguing the point with me though, was just a daft comment with a hint of truth so I've no point to make.

[malvolio]

They'll come back with all sorts of crazy ideas in their heads. If you want to be immersed in complete wokery then Uni is the best place for it now.

No point arguing the point with me though, was just a daft comment with a hint of truth so I've no point to make.

They come back with crazy ideas because they have never learned to be critical of other people's views, and lack the general education to put those views into context, much less frame their own opinion. In part that's down to celebrity culture and all those millions of equally ill-informed "influencers".

Most of the woke bollocks about slavery is based on total ignorance of the actual history and the mores of the times for example.

[d000hg]

They'll come back with all sorts of crazy ideas in their heads. If you want to be immersed in complete wokery then Uni is the best place for it now.

I hear people claim this in the US, that colleges are "factories for wokeness" but I'm not sure how. You get a lot of like-minded people squished up who never had a lot of people like them before, but that's not new. You don't get taught lessons on politics at uni unless you choose to join a society, though I think some now might have mandatory fresher sessions on topics like "how not to rape anyone".

Just seems to be the older people forgetting what their youth was like and decrying the young for acting as they once did to me.