Whoopsi

[northernladuk]

There is a clear distinction between ethnic and religion though in this case since the Jews were originally a specific people group. We're talking about the ethnic Jews here but I'm just not sure if it is a recognised race though - can one be racist to the Jewish race, or only anti-semitic?

It's in the name where the complication lies isn't it. A Jew is someone who's religions is Judaism so it's not founded on race but they've been persecuted so many times it's kind of become a race. Hitler referred to them as a race and the distinction has greyed so far there is no single answer anymore.

It is stunning how badly they've had it though. Go to any European city anywhere and do the historic walk and it will come to a segment about the Jews being persecuted for one reason or another. We did Cologne and it was a big issue there during the black death. The jewish community withdrew to their area of the city and shut the doors which meant the black death mortality rate was significantly lower so they rest of the city called them witches and such and went and invaded it and killed them all. Something along those line but blimey, poor buggers couldn't even escape persecution by doing the right thing.

But yeah, being a Jew is so badly defined and mired in history there is no straight answer. I've read the wikipedia before and it's very interesting.

Still boils down to Whoopi being a prize plonker and she's gotta take what should rightfully be coming her way now though.

[WTFH]

... can one be racist to the Jewish race, or only anti-semitic?

Etymologically speaking, anti-semitic could also be applied to "ethnic Muslims" - i.e. ones that can trace their ancestry back to Abram/Ishmael, since they are also descendents of Shem.

[d000hg]

correct. Ethnic Jews are separate to the religion. They are descended from the Israelites by the maternal line.
There can be black Jews but only where a black man has been introduced into the genetic lineage.


Wikipedia has a lot of information. Jews - Wikipedia

Well yes, as I said. But that doesn't clarify if they're a race. Are the Israelites a race - it implies a biological factor but where that line is drawn is the question.

[d000hg]

Still boils down to Whoopi being a prize plonker and she's gotta take what should rightfully be coming her way now though.

Is she? She said the Holocaust was fundamentally about humans being horrific to each other not specifically it being a racial purge. We should surely be able to have that sort of discussion?

[hobnob]

David Baddiel gave an interview about this, and I think this video is worth watching:
Jonny Geller on Twitter: "This is as good as it gets in describing what antisemitism is in 2 minutes by @Baddiel https://t.co/8CgQNFJ1lB" / Twitter
Quote: "I'm an atheist, and the Gestapo would have shot me tomorrow."

[northernladuk]

Is she? She said the Holocaust was fundamentally about humans being horrific to each other not specifically it being a racial purge. We should surely be able to have that sort of discussion?

Yes she has (IMO) and good point about having the discussion but she went too far. Whether her comments are technically correct or just generally insensitive she's been a plonker. Just wasn't needed. She could be right about race but Hitler considered them a race so it was racially driven so for her to say what she did is decisive at best and she shouldn't have said it. Her being black so racism is different for her wasn't helpful either. I didn't say she was wrong or right or anything like that, just been a plonker. Went somewhere in a tone that wasn't going to end well.

[d000hg]

Why do we care what Hitler thought? If I mount a campaign to kill all the traffic wardens because I'm convinced they are a separate race, would I be guilty of* race crimes?



*or possibly applauded for

[mudskipper]

Edit - Baddiel said it better

[SueEllen]

correct. Ethnic Jews are separate to the religion. They are descended from the Israelites by the maternal line.
There can be black Jews but only where a black man has been introduced into the genetic lineage.

Have you not heard of Ethiopian Jews?

They aren't converts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist...ws_in_Ethiopia

[SueEllen]

Why do we care what Hitler thought? If I mount a campaign to kill all the traffic wardens because I'm convinced they are a separate race, would I be guilty of* race crimes?



*or possibly applauded for

Race is a social concept so if you were powerful enough to convince enough people traffic wardens* where a race then yes you would be.

Race in the US is seen differently to race in the UK which is seen differently to race in France etc.

Now if you are talking about ethnicity there are different Jewish ethnicities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions
(Yes I'm being lazy giving you a Wikipedia link.)

*Traffic wardens don't exist anymore they are either parking attendants or parking enforcement officers, and actually have less power. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34203585