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Foot In Mouth Disease

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    Foot In Mouth Disease

    That police and crime commissioner who said women need to street-wise so we aren't arrested by off duty police officers has resigned.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-sarah-everard

    A Conservative police commissioner accused of victim blaming in the wake of the murder of Sarah Everard has resigned after being told there was a “catastrophic lack of confidence” in his position.

    Philip Allott, who oversees North Yorkshire police and the region’s fire service, was criticised after he said women “need to be streetwise” about powers of arrest and should “just learn a bit about that legal process” in case they were approached by officers.

    His remarks were made in a radio interview following the sentencing of Everard’s killer, the Metropolitan police officer Wayne Couzens, who used his handcuffs and warrant card to abduct the 33-year-old from a south London street.

    In an extraordinary meeting of North Yorkshire’s police, fire and crime panel on Thursday, Allott admitted making a “major mistake” in a “car crash” radio interview but he refused repeatedly to resign despite a unanimous vote of no confidence from the 11-member panel.

    However, three hours after the meeting he announced his intention to quit, meaning a byelection will now take place. He said: “I had hoped I could rebuild trust, to restore confidence. I was pleased that so many victims’ groups had accepted that I was genuinely sorry and were willing to work with me to help me in the mammoth task I had ahead.

    “Following this morning’s meeting of the police and crime panel it seems clear to me that the task will be exceptionally difficult, if it is possible at all. It would take a long time and a lot of resources of my office and the many groups who do excellent work supporting victims. This is time victims do not have.”

    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

    #2
    To me its very odd saying that we shouldn't attempt to protect ourselves against bad things.

    If I walked drunk down the street with a £10K Rolex and got mugged I would quite reasonably expect to be called an idiot.

    If I noticed a nutter off his face when at a party I would avoid him. Happened a few times.

    If I leave my house unlocked I am probably going to be burgled.

    If I "get in the way" of some idiot in a fast car / white van I could be a victim of road rage.

    If I were young & female walking home in the dark/abandoned area I would quite reasonably feel unsafe.

    My daughters were always collected or followed on life 360 from work etc or expected to travel in a pack of friends

    I always walked or dropped girlfriends home after dates. My Daughters male friends frequently walk her and her female friends home after parties or met me/their parents part way so we could collect her.

    I am not suggesting in any way the way the met didn't screw up big time with Couzens but people working out how to avoid people like that is sensible. Very few rapists or murderers are actually policemen but quite a few like the dark & abandoned areas.

    I wish the world were perfect but it clearly isn't, so live with it and protect yourself.

    Why do you think we should believe and behave like crime doesn't happen?
    Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by vetran View Post
      Why do you think we should believe and behave like crime doesn't happen?
      Because one of the key aspects of a Police Force is that Police Officers can carry weapons you and I can't, and have powers of detention that you and I don't. The idea that you can be "streetwise" to a wrongful arrest is a ridiculous notion that could only be brought up by somebody a long way removed from reality.

      It's one again a narrative that places blame on women, and by extension Everard when the simple reality is that short of not being in that place, at that time, there was *nothing* she could do.

      He wasn't even a fake police officer - he was a literal police officer, using his powers to murder somebody.

      If I leave my house unlocked I am probably going to be burgled.
      I'm glad you mentioned this, cos it's a great analogy. You lock the door right? But what else do you? Have you not got a 24/7 guard? Why would you even leave your house unattended? Presumably everything valuable is buried deep within your underground vault? No? Why not? Sounds like you're asking for it mate. Take some precautions FFS.

      I am not suggesting in any way the way the met didn't screw up big time with Couzens but people working out how to avoid people like that is sensible. Very few rapists or murderers are actually policemen but quite a few like the dark & abandoned areas.
      Right, but you realise he's talking specifically about this case and women "understanding" the powers of arrest. (Quite what they need to understand I have no idea, given near enough any offence is arrestable nowadays under fairly low thresholds)
      Last edited by vwdan; 14 October 2021, 16:42.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by vwdan View Post

        Because one of the key aspects of a Police Force is that Police Officers can carry weapons you and I can't, and have powers of detention that you and I don't. The idea that you can be "streetwise" to a wrongful arrest is a ridiculous notion that could only be brought up by somebody a long way removed from reality.

        It's one again a narrative that places blame on women, and by extension Everard when the simple reality is that short of not being in that place, at that time, there was *nothing* she could do.

        He wasn't even a fake police officer - he was a literal police officer, using his powers to murder somebody.



        I'm glad you mentioned this, cos it's a great analogy. You lock the door right? But what else do you? Have you not got a 24/7 guard? Why would you even leave your house unattended? Presumably everything valuable is buried deep within your underground vault? No? Why not? Sounds like you're asking for it mate. Take some precautions FFS.



        Right, but you realise he's talking specifically about this case and women "understanding" the powers of arrest. (Quite what they need to understand I have no idea, given near enough any offence is arrestable nowadays under fairly low thresholds)
        Why wouldn't you want to understand the risks and responsibilities?
        As people impersonate Police officers to commit crimes is it not wise to know how to check they are real?

        Do I get the feeling you don't like the Police?
        Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by vetran View Post

          Why wouldn't you want to understand the risks and responsibilities?
          As people impersonate Police officers to commit crimes is it not wise to know how to check they are real?

          Do I get the feeling you don't like the Police?
          Time for you to stop digging.
          "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by vetran View Post
            I am not suggesting in any way the way the met didn't screw up big time with Couzens but people working out how to avoid people like that is sensible. Very few rapists or murderers are actually policemen but quite a few like the dark & abandoned areas.
            I think that you and Philip Allott are talking about different things. Quoting from the Guardian article (linked in SueEllen's post):
            “So women, first of all, need to be streetwise about when they can be arrested and when they can’t be arrested. She should never have been arrested and submitted to that”

            That statement has nothing to do with avoiding dark alleys. (It's also worth noting that Sarah Everard was walking along a well lit main road with other people around, so she was "following the rules" but she still got raped and murdered.)

            I agree that it's a good idea to know the law, but I'm not convinced that it would help in a situation like this. Suppose that you were stopped by the police for something, and you knew for an absolute fact that you hadn't broken the law. Is the police officer using this as a pretext to take you off somewhere (away from witnesses) and murder you? Or is it just that they're not an expert on every single law, and they've made a mistake? Assuming the latter, would you put up a fight or run away, knowing that this might make things worse (e.g. if they pull out a taser), or would you go quietly and sort it out at the police station with a lawyer involved?

            Comment


              #7
              It all depends how things are said but generally I agree with V. Nowt wrong with issuing advice to keep us safe from criminals. This was a rather unusual situation of course, I think few would have been aware of danger from a genuine cop, so he should have phrased his comments in a way that did not appear critical of Everard.

              PS Although I once refused to enter a house with 2 cops when they suspected me of an arson attack! Can't say I've ever entirely trusted them.
              bloggoth

              If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
              John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by SueEllen View Post

                Time for you to stop digging.
                not digging, just being pragmatic. If you aren't I am sad for you.
                Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by hobnob View Post

                  I think that you and Philip Allott are talking about different things. Quoting from the Guardian article (linked in SueEllen's post):
                  “So women, first of all, need to be streetwise about when they can be arrested and when they can’t be arrested. She should never have been arrested and submitted to that”

                  That statement has nothing to do with avoiding dark alleys. (It's also worth noting that Sarah Everard was walking along a well lit main road with other people around, so she was "following the rules" but she still got raped and murdered.)

                  I agree that it's a good idea to know the law, but I'm not convinced that it would help in a situation like this. Suppose that you were stopped by the police for something, and you knew for an absolute fact that you hadn't broken the law. Is the police officer using this as a pretext to take you off somewhere (away from witnesses) and murder you? Or is it just that they're not an expert on every single law, and they've made a mistake? Assuming the latter, would you put up a fight or run away, knowing that this might make things worse (e.g. if they pull out a taser), or would you go quietly and sort it out at the police station with a lawyer involved?
                  This is a very unusual situation Police officers raping & killing people is not at all common in the UK, the Police failing to police their staff sadly is.

                  Most people are raped and murdered by people they know or if strangers criminals known to the Police (as in this case) both need fixing. I doubt much could be done by the general public in this case. But making it just a little bit harder by being street wise is something we can do.
                  Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by vetran View Post

                    not digging, just being pragmatic. If you aren't I am sad for you.
                    You were commenting on stuff that wasn't relevant to what i started the thread about.

                    The Police and Crime Commissioner who resigned was telling women that we should know when someone who is serving police officer is arresting us without good cause and we should resist. He came out with his comments around the same time other people, including former police officers and male government ministers, have told us that we should flag down buses etc if we don't trust the male police officer trying to arrest us. None of them are being realistic.

                    The vast majority of women and teen girls I know and see take steps to ensure their safety especially when we go out in the dark. So you are teaching your grandmother to suck eggs.

                    Btw I actually know men who have done what xoggoth did and have got a good kicking or arrested for it. A couple of them were police staff.
                    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

                    Comment

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