Foot In Mouth Disease

[ladymuck]

I think you are mixing up two types of issue here. You seem to be condoning behaviours that are not acceptable by saying that the fault is with the victim if they don't take preventative measures.

If I walked drunk down the street with a £10K Rolex and got mugged I would quite reasonably expect to be called an idiot.

No-one should expect to get mugged. Irrespective of their state of drunkenness or what they have about their person. Calling you an idiot for being mugged is called victim blaming. This is exactly what happens to women if you swapped mugged for raped, and rolex for a short skirt. You are an idiot for saying that the person WHO CHOSE TO MUG you was entirely within their rights to do so.

If I noticed a nutter off his face when at a party I would avoid him. Happened a few times.

This is reasonable. If someone makes you feel uncomfortable, avoid and don't engage.

If I leave my house unlocked I am probably going to be burgled.

As above, no-one should expect to get burgled. Securing your home is sensible but by your logic, my flat in W8 should be empty considering all the times I've forgotten to lock my kitchen door.

If I "get in the way" of some idiot in a fast car / white van I could be a victim of road rage.

That's not something you can avoid as you can't tell which driver is going to have a benny over something.

If I were young & female walking home in the dark/abandoned area I would quite reasonably feel unsafe.

My daughters were always collected or followed on life 360 from work etc or expected to travel in a pack of friends

I always walked or dropped girlfriends home after dates. My Daughters male friends frequently walk her and her female friends home after parties or met me/their parents part way so we could collect her.

This is the fault of society in that women are taught to be fearful because men are not taught to behave properly and men are not taught to challenge each other when they do behave badly - in fact, men are taught to encourage and reinforce each other's bad behaviour. It's very nice that this happened but it shouldn't be necessary.

I am not suggesting in any way the way the met didn't screw up big time with Couzens but people working out how to avoid people like that is sensible. Very few rapists or murderers are actually policemen but quite a few like the dark & abandoned areas.

I wish the world were perfect but it clearly isn't, so live with it and protect yourself.

Why do you think we should believe and behave like crime doesn't happen?

Crime does happen every day but telling people (in your completely mixed up way) that the only way to stop people who chose to behave badly is to make sure that women (a) are never alone, (b) stay sober, (c) wear modest clothing, then we end up with Afghanistan. If proper action was taken against people who broke the law AND society stopped telling men that their attitudes and behaviours towards women was acceptable (every person is responsible for enforcing this) then we'd be in a far better state.

Locking yourself away in fear does not make the problem go away.

[vetran]

I think you are mixing up two types of issue here. You seem to be condoning behaviours that are not acceptable by saying that the fault is with the victim if they don't take preventative measures.


No-one should expect to get mugged. Irrespective of their state of drunkenness or what they have about their person. Calling you an idiot for being mugged is called victim blaming. This is exactly what happens to women if you swapped mugged for raped, and rolex for a short skirt. You are an idiot for saying that the person WHO CHOSE TO MUG you was entirely within their rights to do so.


This is reasonable. If someone makes you feel uncomfortable, avoid and don't engage.


As above, no-one should expect to get burgled. Securing your home is sensible but by your logic, my flat in W8 should be empty considering all the times I've forgotten to lock my kitchen door.


That's not something you can avoid as you can't tell which driver is going to have a benny over something.


This is the fault of society in that women are taught to be fearful because men are not taught to behave properly and men are not taught to challenge each other when they do behave badly - in fact, men are taught to encourage and reinforce each other's bad behaviour. It's very nice that this happened but it shouldn't be necessary.



Crime does happen every day but telling people (in your completely mixed up way) that the only way to stop people who chose to behave badly is to make sure that women (a) are never alone, (b) stay sober, (c) wear modest clothing, then we end up with Afghanistan. If proper action was taken against people who broke the law AND society stopped telling men that their attitudes and behaviours towards women was acceptable (every person is responsible for enforcing this) then we'd be in a far better state.

Locking yourself away in fear does not make the problem go away.

There is a place between overbearing religious countries / areas such as the Bible belt and a holiday at Hedonism.

As I say the Met were incompetent - the Police frequently are but self protection is required from eeveryone. The more vulnerable you are the more care you need to take.

Society should expect men & women to act with caution in risky situations and men to be gentlemen and walk the ladies home. This is not a comment on the ladies but the risks. Parents should see their daughters as vulnerable at night. That isn't a Burqa - my daughter goes out wearing some very revealing clothes when clubbing but she goes with mates and gets a taxi home with her mate.

How does the advice to walk with others in areas that are known to be risky differ from don't leave your drink unattended or don't flash your mobile?

https://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/c...te-rape-drugs/

https://www.surrey.police.uk/cp/crim...treet-robbery/

No one is talking about locking yourself away but there are strategies that can work without massively impacting your life. Phone someone while walking (My sister for instance always phones one of us while walking the dog, my Daughter if the first to be dropped off in taxi stays on the phone to her friend). If we want to stop these crimes we should remove the perpetrators before they escalate (time & again the criminals are well known to the Police) and remove the opportunity for them to do it.

Now I have been afraid for my life in a few places (places with men carrying big guns or knives or just on the lash being the big awkward bloke people want to beat up) it must get a bit unpleasant for that to be a full time thing because you are female.

If you just look at the rape accusations and how few result in conviction we need to do something , that in my view is educate both sides how to protect themselves.

[vwdan]

Anybody else struggling to understand why Vetran is so keen to gloss over the context of y'know, what was actually said and who said it?

[SueEllen]

Anybody else struggling to understand why Vetran is so keen to gloss over the context of y'know, what was actually said and who said it?

Foot In Mouth Disease?

[vetran]

Anybody else struggling to understand why Vetran is so keen to gloss over the context of y'know, what was actually said and who said it?

Because I expanded the conversation from Point scoring and cancel culture? Sorry if its a bit complicated for you.

[vwdan]

Because I expanded the conversation from Point scoring and cancel culture? Sorry if its a bit complicated for you.

You never addressed it the first time round. By expanded, what you actually mean, is skirt over the very heart of the thread.

[NotAllThere]

No-one should expect to get mugged. Irrespective of their state of drunkenness or what they have about their person. Calling you an idiot for being mugged is called victim blaming. This is exactly what happens to women if you swapped mugged for raped, and rolex for a short skirt. You are an idiot for saying that the person WHO CHOSE TO MUG you was entirely within their rights to do so.

Exactly. There are two separate issues.

1. In an ideal society people would be safe to walk the streets in any state without being mugged.
2. People need to protect themselves because we don't live in an ideal society.

[vetran]

You never addressed it the first time round. By expanded, what you actually mean, is skirt over the very heart of the thread.

I did address it, sorry if you find it hard to understand.

This man who said something in a poor way has been hounded out of his job. The heart of the matter is that he was trying to say "be careful out there there are nasty people" and was portrayed for political purposes as saying "women know your place".

As NAT said so well above its not a perfect world deal with it.

[vwdan]

I did address it, sorry if you find it hard to understand.

This man who said something in a poor way has been hounded out of his job. The heart of the matter is that he was trying to say "be careful out there there are nasty people" and was portrayed for political purposes as saying "women know your place".

As NAT said so well above its not a perfect world deal with it.

This man, being a bloody PCC, specifically said women need to be more "streetwise" when it comes to being arrested by Police Officers. Can you honestly not grasp why that's problematic, and why he's been absolutely trounced for it? He has, quite literally, blamed Everad for "allowing" herself to be arrested.

he heart of the matter is that he was trying to say "be careful out there there are nasty people"

See, no, that's a lie isn't it Vetran. We aren't talking about "people" - we are talking, specifically, about warranted Police officers abusing their powers of arrest. Pray tell, what are YOU going to do if wrongly arrested? You gonna take that fight? You gonna risk a charge of assaulting an officer, or resisting arrest? Or, like most normal people, are you gonna think "This'll get sorted down the station" and not "They're going to murder me".

Your inability to process what was said, and why it's problematic would astound me if it weren't for the fact you've continually shown yourself up to be something of a special case in these matters. You're desperate urge to be "anti-woke" or quite whatever issue you have is clouding your judgement and ability to see the facts.

Oh, and I forgot to respond to your earlier question - no, I'm not anti Police. I'm far further from that than you may imagine..

[vetran]

This is the fault of society in that women are taught to be fearful because men are not taught to behave properly and men are not taught to challenge each other when they do behave badly - in fact, men are taught to encourage and reinforce each other's bad behaviour. It's very nice that this happened but it shouldn't be necessary.

On this point actually there has been a lot of work put in and it does seem to be working in the younger better educated men and women. Clarity of consent is still an issue in many cases as can be seen from the poorly prosecuted rape accusations where the CPS see no chance of a conviction.