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XR now blocking M25

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    #41
    Originally posted by vetran View Post

    Yep its just bit players like JCB, Alstrom , DAF , Hyundai , BOC etc delivering trains and trucks now. The big stuff is where Hydrogen wins but cars will run on hydrogen when the infrastructure is there.
    Trains and trucks and excavators aren't really the big issue for emissions though are they? We're clearly talking about cars, so your sarcasm is a little silly TBH. When a single vehicle costs 6 figures and already uses special fuel, you have a lot more scope to work these things out - they are entirely separate infrastructure.

    I don't know how many years away commercial hydrogen might be, but the world has clearly already moved on to EV. That decision was seemingly made a few years ago, realistically.
    Originally posted by MaryPoppins
    I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
    Originally posted by vetran
    Urine is quite nourishing

    Comment


      #42
      Originally posted by d000hg View Post
      Trains and trucks and excavators aren't really the big issue for emissions though are they? We're clearly talking about cars, so your sarcasm is a little silly TBH. When a single vehicle costs 6 figures and already uses special fuel, you have a lot more scope to work these things out - they are entirely separate infrastructure.

      I don't know how many years away commercial hydrogen might be, but the world has clearly already moved on to EV. That decision was seemingly made a few years ago, realistically.
      The world is occasionally wrong. Remember the lurch to Diesel?

      EV may be part of the answer however as the grid won't support it and there is concern about battery lifecycle why not consider other solutions?

      EV is not suitable for large vehicles which is why the large vehicle guys are looking at Hydrogen engines. The big vehicles are pretty stinky.

      ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ethicalman/2009/11/why_cars_are_greener_than_buses.html#:~:text=Accor ding%20to%20figures%20from%20the,average%20occupan cy%20(1.57%20people).&text=It%20is%20true%20that%2 0full,even%20cars%20full%20of%20passengers).

      If we had a hydrogen infrastructure I suspect we would soon have hydrogen cars as they are an almost drop in replacement for current vehicles.
      Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

      Comment


        #43
        Originally posted by d000hg View Post
        Trains and trucks and excavators aren't really the big issue for emissions though are they? We're clearly talking about cars, so your sarcasm is a little silly TBH. When a single vehicle costs 6 figures and already uses special fuel, you have a lot more scope to work these things out - they are entirely separate infrastructure.

        I don't know how many years away commercial hydrogen might be, but the world has clearly already moved on to EV. That decision was seemingly made a few years ago, realistically.
        Unfortunately the UK isn't ready. The grid couldn't cope with 30m electric vehicles, even if there were enough charging points for all of them to charge up overnight, which there aren't (in the terraced streets where I live you'd need one about every 10 feet, since no-one has a driveway). I saw an article proposing that charge points should be modified so they could be turned off to prevent blackouts. Imagine setting off for work expecting a fully charged battery and finding it's as dead as when you left it?
        Talking of batteries, does anyone know what a new battery pack will cost for your Tesla, when it packs up? It's integral to the chassis, so around 15 grand plus labour, and since the car will have to be dismantled, you'll be without it for some time.
        I'll leave you to guess where the Govt is going to get the £30bn they currently raise from fuel duty, but if it's a huge levy on the electricity from charge points, you won't even be saving much money.

        Edit - and if you are able to install your own charge point on your driveway (or anywhere else on one's land), it'll cost you around £800.
        Last edited by Mordac; 14 September 2021, 18:11.
        His heart is in the right place - shame we can't say the same about his brain...

        Comment


          #44
          Originally posted by Mordac View Post

          Unfortunately the UK isn't ready. The grid couldn't cope with 30m electric vehicles, even if there were enough charging points for all of them to charge up overnight, which there aren't (in the terraced streets where I live you'd need one about every 10 feet, since no-one has a driveway). I saw an article proposing that charge points should be modified so they could be turned off to prevent blackouts. Imagine setting off for work expecting a fully charged battery and finding it's as dead as when you left it?
          Talking of batteries, does anyone know what a new battery pack will cost for your Tesla, when it packs up? It's integral to the chassis, so around 15 grand plus labour, and since the car will have to be dismantled, you'll be without it for some time.
          I'll leave you to guess where the Govt is going to get the £30bn they currently raise from fuel duty, but if it's a huge levy on the electricity from charge points, you won't even be saving much money.

          Edit - and if you are able to install your own charge point on your driveway (or anywhere else on one's land), it'll cost you around £800.
          When I say the industry has made it's mind, I mean in terms of new models. That naturally means EVs will feed in over time which will ameliorate what will as you say be a big problem: capacity.

          A lot of the fuel duty income must be being spent on environmental stuff right now - infrastructure for EVs amongst other things?

          I still predict the EV revolution will actually be the self-driving revolution and the end of traditional car ownership, if we're talking a decade down the road, in urban areas at least. I might be totally wrong but I'm happy to make the prediction and see.

          Originally posted by MaryPoppins
          I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
          Originally posted by vetran
          Urine is quite nourishing

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by Mordac View Post
            ...in the terraced streets where I live you'd need one about every 10 feet, since no-one has a driveway...
            Yes, houses/flats without drives are a bit of a problem.

            With the mileage range of EVs increasingly rapidly, if you've got a drive, then charging infrastructure isn't so much of an issue because you can charge overnight from a regular mains socket.

            If everyone had a drive then you wouldn't need that many public charging points because most of the charging would be done at home.
            Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

            Comment


              #46
              Originally posted by Lost It View Post
              Protest is pointless unless you have a fully costed and proven solution.

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by Mordac View Post
                Talking of batteries, does anyone know what a new battery pack will cost for your Tesla, when it packs up? It's integral to the chassis, so around 15 grand plus labour, and since the car will have to be dismantled, you'll be without it for some time.
                I think this will be an intended strategy by the manufactures, it will drive the independent garages and mechanics into oblivion and force the poor off the road. At the moment you can get a 12 month 'runner' for a couple of hundred quid. That will no longer be the case. After sales parts by third parties will no longer be economical and therefore you are at the mercy of the franchised dealers who will have what they been trying to do by other means.
                But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition. Pliny the younger

                Comment


                  #48
                  Originally posted by Gibbon View Post

                  I think this will be an intended strategy by the manufactures, it will drive the independent garages and mechanics into oblivion and force the poor off the road. At the moment you can get a 12 month 'runner' for a couple of hundred quid. That will no longer be the case. After sales parts by third parties will no longer be economical and therefore you are at the mercy of the franchised dealers who will have what they been trying to do by other means.
                  It depends on how the technology evolves. I would expect batteries to constantly improve and the cost to come down.

                  It may not be long before a typical EV can do 500 miles on a full charge. Even if it can only achieve half of that range after several years, it would still be a viable run about.

                  Charging times will get shorter too. I don't think it will be long before you could put in 100 miles of charge in 5 mins from a 3-phase public charging point (under half an hour to charge a 500-mile range EV from "empty").
                  Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post

                    It depends on how the technology evolves. I would expect batteries to constantly improve and the cost to come down.

                    It may not be long before a typical EV can do 500 miles on a full charge. Even if it can only achieve half of that range after several years, it would still be a viable run about.

                    Charging times will get shorter too. I don't think it will be long before you could put in 100 miles of charge in 5 mins from a 3-phase public charging point (under half an hour to charge a 500-mile range EV from "empty").
                    Strange decades of multi billion UPS manufacturers working on fast recharge haven't solved that yet. Fast charging batteries still shorten life and/or push up battery costs plus use masses of power.

                    You touch on 3 phase because the amount of power you will need for fast charging will be phenomenal. The grid can't cope now, as we add non gas boilers for heating , your boiler uses < 100 watts of electricity when the boiler is actually burning gas, heat exchangers use ~5kw 50 times more where is that coming from?


                    Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Batteries are only going to see incremental improvements, if that, for some time. Prices may drop with scale of course and there might be efficiency improvements - no idea how good the harvesting tech is already.

                      In-road charging/power would be amazing but clearly this is a HUGE project.
                      Originally posted by MaryPoppins
                      I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
                      Originally posted by vetran
                      Urine is quite nourishing

                      Comment

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