oh those racist Danes!

[d000hg]

Government provided schools and healthcare are indeed "Free at the point of use".

If you are a bit of a thicky or a massive underachiever you translate this to Free. If you are an NHS acolyte you feel everyone should be grateful that the NHS deigns to exist and provides its largesse without challenge. Its a bit like being religious "God / the NHS move in mysterious ways" and killing babies is just part of its majesty.

Everyone who earns a decent amount of money and pays a decent amount of tax understands that their tax pays for this "free" stuff and quite reasonably have a right to challenge the provision of the service they are paying for.

High earners also contribute more to maintaining and building roads, but that doesn't mean they get to have a say on speed limits. The thickos are those who think that paying more tax makes them entitled to more of a say, or that think "free at the point of use" needs explaining for that matter. Like roads, state schools and prisons they are 'free' in the sense everyone is allowed to use them regardless of status. It's really not hard to understand.

[vetran]

High earners also contribute more to maintaining and building roads, but that doesn't mean they get to have a say on speed limits. The thickos are those who think that paying more tax makes them entitled to more of a say, or that think "free at the point of use" needs explaining for that matter. Like roads, state schools and prisons they are 'free' in the sense everyone is allowed to use them regardless of status. It's really not hard to understand.

We found a dumb one.

They are not free , someone pays for them. Regardless who pays for them we are all entitled to question their effectiveness.

[d000hg]

They are not free , someone pays for them.

Saying something really obvious in the tone that you think you're making a clever point gives the impression you seem a little simple. Repeating it over and over removes the doubt. You know exactly what "free healthcare" means, and so does everyone else.

Regardless who pays for them we are all entitled to question their effectiveness.

Only a couple of posts back you said otherwise. I'd say we're free to question them via the ballot box, but you'd probably make the asinine point "eeew, no acshually democratic process is paid by taxes so it's not free"

[vetran]

Saying something really obvious in the tone that you think you're making a clever point gives the impression you seem a little simple. Repeating it over and over removes the doubt. You know exactly what "free healthcare" means, and so does everyone else.

Only a couple of posts back you said otherwise. I'd say we're free to question them via the ballot box, but you'd probably make the asinine point "eeew, no acshually democratic process is paid by taxes so it's not free"

The only fool around here is anyone blindly supporting a project with ever spiralling costs and diminishing returns known as the NHS. Unwilling to benchmark or learn from its peers now those that pay for it are starting to question it. This is normally a good thing on a failing project unless the project team cover their ears and shout "nah nah nah I'm not listening" or "you are wrong how dare you question the sacred project".

Anyone can question a projects validity and their questions may or may not be taken seriously but the one who signs the cheques ultimately gets to can the project.

We are actually free to question our elected representatives via the ballot box however most people understand that sacking the only vaguely decent PM / project staff we have is no way to get any one of the 30 projects they are working on back on track. Lobbying them on a specific issue is normally a better choice.

[d000hg]

The only fool around here is anyone blindly supporting a project with ever spiralling costs and diminishing returns known as the NHS. Unwilling to benchmark or learn from its peers now those that pay for it are starting to question it. This is normally a good thing on a failing project unless the project team cover their ears and shout "nah nah nah I'm not listening" or "you are wrong how dare you question the sacred project".

Again, you're making up arguments to argue with, nobody has said that.

Anyone can question a projects validity and their questions may or may not be taken seriously but the one who signs the cheques ultimately gets to can the project.

Again, your heavily biased position is exposed in poor logic. The NHS is not 'a project'. And if it were, the person 'signing the cheques' is the government. You do NOT pay for the NHS. You pay taxes to central government, and they decide what to spend it on. Like investing in a fund in your ISA, you do not get to decide what the fund manager does. You put the money in, they make the decisions.

We are actually free to question our elected representatives via the ballot box

As you pointed out, it's not free. Someone has to pay for it I suppose you think that you should get more votes because you earn what you think to be a lot.

[Whorty]

The only fool around here is anyone blindly supporting a project with ever spiralling costs and diminishing returns known as the NHS.

As pointed out already, the NHS is not a project. Even you know that the definition (among others) of a project is something with a defined start and end date. Now, I know the Tories can't be trusted with the NHS but even they don't have an end date for it.

Can you support your "ever spiralling costs" with some facts?

Can you support your "diminishing returns" with some facts?

Unwilling to benchmark or learn from its peers now those that pay for it are starting to question it.

Who are peers to the NHS that they should benchmark?

How do you know that they don't benchmark in certain areas?

This is normally a good thing on a failing project unless the project team cover their ears and shout "nah nah nah I'm not listening" or "you are wrong how dare you question the sacred project".

Anyone can question a projects validity and their questions may or may not be taken seriously but the one who signs the cheques ultimately gets to can the project.

We've already proven that it's not a project

We are actually free to question our elected representatives via the ballot box however most people understand that sacking the only vaguely decent PM / project staff we have is no way to get any one of the 30 projects they are working on back on track. Lobbying them on a specific issue is normally a better choice.

BoJo as vaguely decent is laughable. He's a bare fast liar, but if that's what you think makes a good PM then crack on.

Utter rubbish on the 'project' staff bit again. You really are desperate to get a point across, that it makes zero sense what you are saying.

[vetran]

Unsurprisingly you are both wrong just because you believe a project is only like an IT project the English language begs to differ.

project noun - an individual or collaborative enterprise that is carefully planned to achieve a particular aim.

The NHS is and always should be a project. Currently failing in the carefully planned part the aim is also poorly defined.

If the government is the person signing the checks what happens when tax revenues fall because people don't want to pay for the NHS?

BOJO maybe laughable but the opposition was worse.

[Whorty]

Unsurprisingly you are both wrong just because you believe a project is only like an IT project the English language begs to differ.

The NHS is and always should be a project. Currently failing in the carefully planned part the aim is also poorly defined.

Man, you really are showing your level of intelligence today!

No one said that projects are all IT based you imbecile. The NHS is NOT a project.

Are you really this dim at work too? To help you along, I've provided you with a direct quote from PRINCE2 ... you may actually learn something today after all.

PRINCE2 project definition: A project is a temporary organization that is created for the purpose of delivering one or more business products according to an agreed business case.

• The word organization refers to the project team (people involved in the project)
• The word temporary refers to the fact that each project as a definite start and end date.
• The business case includes: reasons for the project, expected benefits, costs and time

[vetran]

Man, you really are showing your level of intelligence today!

No one said that projects are all IT based you imbecile. The NHS is NOT a project.

Are you really this dim at work too? To help you along, I've provided you with a direct quote from PRINCE2 ... you may actually learn something today after all.

the brains in this one are weak.

Projects as defined in English are not just temporary.

[Whorty]

the brains in this one are weak.

Projects as defined in English are not just temporary.

A project, by its very definition, is temporary with a defined start and end date.

The NHS is an organisation that does run projects, but in itself is not a project (it's not a programme or portfolio either although that would be less idiotic to argue).

How do you get through each day, being so dim? I assume you wear slip on shoes as laces would just confuse you!