Dangerous Lies

[vetran]

Where the poor sods were told to stay inside by the 'expoerts'?

To be to fair to the actual firefighters that was the procedure they were trained to follow based on scientific examination of historic fires. They are trained to obey procedure or people die or at least the firefighter gets fired.

The experts to blame are the ones that made the decision to stick thousands of square metres of fire lighters to the outside of the building, that changed the game somewhat. Then despite repeated incidents showing the cladding was dangerous and banned in Germany they kept on recommending its use.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Indeed Gricer was much more fun

Yes. We all loved his stories of banana suits and bubble front DMUs.

[Paddy]

To be to fair to the actual firefighters that was the procedure they were trained to follow based on scientific examination of historic fires. They are trained to obey procedure or people die or at least the firefighter gets fired.

The experts to blame are the ones that made the decision to stick thousands of square metres of fire lighters to the outside of the building, that changed the game somewhat. Then despite repeated incidents showing the cladding was dangerous and banned in Germany they kept on recommending its use.

However, video evidence such as the taken from the cab of a fire engine going towards Grenfell Tower showed the entire outside of the building on fire. Despite this, the fire officers advised the residents to stay inside. Rather than thinking on the ground, they were following orders.

I have been in an office block when it caught fire. The whole floor was told to stay put while the upper floors were evacuated. Eventually we were instructed to evacuate by a set of stairs that was full of smoke and on fire. We chose an alternative route and stairs and got out; got accounted for and then went to the pub. The upshot is, is there is a fire in future, I will get out the building no matter who says otherwise. It seems everything is f**ked in the UK and run by stupid managers and politicians.

[vetran]

However, video evidence such as the taken from the cab of a fire engine going towards Grenfell Tower showed the entire outside of the building on fire. Despite this, the fire officers advised the residents to stay inside. Rather than thinking on the ground, they were following orders.

I have been in an office block when it caught fire. The whole floor was told to stay put while the upper floors were evacuated. Eventually we were instructed to evacuate by a set of stairs that was full of smoke and on fire. We chose an alternative route and stairs and got out; got accounted for and then went to the pub. The upshot is, is there is a fire in future, I will get out the building no matter who says otherwise. It seems everything is f**ked in the UK and run by stupid managers and politicians.

Unfortunately the firefighters are not trained and enabled like the SAS, more like cannon fodder. Again if you fail to follow proceedure you are in trouble.

Grenfell Tower firefighter who tried to rescue people from burning house is sacked for breaking health and safety rules

Yes Health and safety are frequently less than effective.

[WTFH]

Turns out that some of the signatories weren't genuine...

Coronvirus: 'Dr Johnny Bananas' and 'Dr Person Fakename' among medical signatories on herd immunity open letter | UK News | Sky News

[SueEllen]

Turns out that some of the signatories weren't genuine...

Coronvirus: 'Dr Johnny Bananas' and 'Dr Person Fakename' among medical signatories on herd immunity open letter | UK News | Sky News

Fake News!!

[NotAllThere]

Unfortunately the firefighters are not trained and enabled like the SAS, more like cannon fodder. Again if you fail to follow proceedure you are in trouble.

Grenfell Tower firefighter who tried to rescue people from burning house is sacked for breaking health and safety rules

Yes Health and safety are frequently less than effective.

The idea of procedures, if you've ever worked in a safety critical industry, is to reduce the number of deaths to a minimum. Not to make them zero. That means that sometimes the following of the procedure will result in death.

If procedure is ignored by everyone, more people die.

HTH.

[vetran]

The idea of procedures, if you've ever worked in a safety critical industry, is to reduce the number of deaths to a minimum. Not to make them zero. That means that sometimes the following of the procedure will result in death.

If procedure is ignored by everyone, more people die.

HTH.

If you read my posts you would see that I am generally in agreement with following procedure in this situation and I have made that point multiple times. Paddy seems to think the Firemen should have gone all Bruce Willis on the Fire's arse, coz not sure.

I have pointed out that the standing procedure is wrong because the Building inspectors etc are incompetent and the procedure should have been adjusted to cope with flammable insulation but it wasn't, fire safety inspections & approval should still be with the fire brigade.. Those are the key takeaways from Grenfell if you ask me.

The point that the average firefighter attending should have just followed procedure is not in doubt. Walking into the machine guns is what cannon fodder do, the Generals should change the procedure to avoid the machine guns.

Not quite sure what your attempted put down was all about except to demonstrate you didn't understand the thread?

[DaveB]

Turns out that some of the signatories weren't genuine...

Coronvirus: 'Dr Johnny Bananas' and 'Dr Person Fakename' among medical signatories on herd immunity open letter | UK News | Sky News

Not to mention the ones from therapists, homeopaths and holistic practitioners who don't exactly fit the description of Scientific and Medical Professionals quoted.

[Paddy]

If you read my posts you would see that I am generally in agreement with following procedure in this situation and I have made that point multiple times. Paddy seems to think the Firemen should have gone all Bruce Willis on the Fire's arse, coz not sure.

I have pointed out that the standing procedure is wrong because the Building inspectors etc are incompetent and the procedure should have been adjusted to cope with flammable insulation but it wasn't, fire safety inspections & approval should still be with the fire brigade.. Those are the key takeaways from Grenfell if you ask me.

The point that the average firefighter attending should have just followed procedure is not in doubt. Walking into the machine guns is what cannon fodder do, the Generals should change the procedure to avoid the machine guns.

Not quite sure what your attempted put down was all about except to demonstrate you didn't understand the thread?

Stupid boy. I Never said that. However, what should have happened is one the fire brigade had witnessed the fir was out of control, then the order should have been given to evacuee the building and not wait until the fire was raging on the internal of the top floor.