Reply to: Dangerous Lies

[Old Greg]

It doesn’t alter the fact that you didn’t read the article.

Abuse in reputation WILL have consequences if reported.

Be aware.

Is there a statute of limitations?

[cojak]

If I gave you neg rep, it was in error; sorry. It was meant for another bozo.
PS I will give you a +ve to make it up to you.

It doesn’t alter the fact that you didn’t read the article.

Abuse in reputation WILL have consequences if reported.

Be aware.

[Paddy]

Paddy, If you are going to accuse people of lying in reputation comments it's best to actually read the article they are referring to in the first place.

If I gave you neg rep, it was in error; sorry. It was meant for another bozo.
PS I will give you a +ve to make it up to you.

[DaveB]

Paddy, If you are going to accuse people of lying in reputation comments it's best to actually read the article they are referring to in the first place.

Sky News also found 18 self-declared homeopaths listed on the open letter as medical practitioners, despite the fact that homeopathy has no scientific underpinning or clinical evidence to support its use.
In addition, the letter has been signed by well over 100 therapists, including massage therapists, hypnotherapists, psychotherapists and one Mongolian Khöömii Singer who describes himself as a "therapeutic sound practitioner".

[vetran]

If standard procedure don't work then entitative needs to be used on the ground or whoever is in command. I don't think there was a fire on the stairs as stairs must not have any combustible materials.

Sorry possibly wasn't clear the firemen climb the stairs, put any fires out then lead people out. However the fire was too strong and the stairs were filled wit toxic smoke.

Grenfell was not designed to provide a safe escape route, say fire services | News | Building

Stephen Walsh QC, who is representing the London Fire Brigade, also said the building had not been designed to cater for a mass evacuation.Speaking to the inquiry yesterday he said: “Buildings such as Grenfell Tower were expressly designed so as to contain any fire in its compartment of origin.
“Accordingly, the building design is not intended to facilitate the simultaneous evacuation of the whole building.”

[vetran]

If standard procedure don't work then entitative needs to be used on the ground or whoever is in command. I don't think there was a fire on the stairs as stairs must not have any combustible materials.

Sorry possibly wasn't clear the firemen climb the stairs, put any fires out then lead people out. However the fire was too strong and the stairs were filled wit toxic smoke.

Grenfell was not designed to provide a safe escape route, say fire services | News | Building

Stephen Walsh QC, who is representing the London Fire Brigade, also said the building had not been designed to cater for a mass evacuation.Speaking to the inquiry yesterday he said: “Buildings such as Grenfell Tower were expressly designed so as to contain any fire in its compartment of origin.
“Accordingly, the building design is not intended to facilitate the simultaneous evacuation of the whole building.”

[Paddy]

And how does that fit with standard procedure? The Flats are supposed to be cells and survive the fire for a time. The firemen put the fire out on the stairs then evacuate. Doing it before means lots of people in smoke filled stair wells with no air evac or sprinkler.

If standard procedure don't work then entitative needs to be used on the ground or whoever is in command. I don't think there was a fire on the stairs as stairs must not have any combustible materials.

[vetran]

Stupid boy. I Never said that. However, what should have happened is one the fire brigade had witnessed the fir was out of control, then the order should have been given to evacuee the building and not wait until the fire was raging on the internal of the top floor.

And how does that fit with standard procedure? The Flats are supposed to be cells and survive the fire for a time. The firemen put the fire out on the stairs then evacuate. Doing it before means lots of people in smoke filled stair wells with no air evac or sprinkler.

[Paddy]

If you read my posts you would see that I am generally in agreement with following procedure in this situation and I have made that point multiple times. Paddy seems to think the Firemen should have gone all Bruce Willis on the Fire's arse, coz not sure.

I have pointed out that the standing procedure is wrong because the Building inspectors etc are incompetent and the procedure should have been adjusted to cope with flammable insulation but it wasn't, fire safety inspections & approval should still be with the fire brigade.. Those are the key takeaways from Grenfell if you ask me.

The point that the average firefighter attending should have just followed procedure is not in doubt. Walking into the machine guns is what cannon fodder do, the Generals should change the procedure to avoid the machine guns.

Not quite sure what your attempted put down was all about except to demonstrate you didn't understand the thread?

Stupid boy. I Never said that. However, what should have happened is one the fire brigade had witnessed the fir was out of control, then the order should have been given to evacuee the building and not wait until the fire was raging on the internal of the top floor.

[DaveB]

Turns out that some of the signatories weren't genuine...

Coronvirus: 'Dr Johnny Bananas' and 'Dr Person Fakename' among medical signatories on herd immunity open letter | UK News | Sky News

Not to mention the ones from therapists, homeopaths and holistic practitioners who don't exactly fit the description of Scientific and Medical Professionals quoted.

[vetran]

The idea of procedures, if you've ever worked in a safety critical industry, is to reduce the number of deaths to a minimum. Not to make them zero. That means that sometimes the following of the procedure will result in death.

If procedure is ignored by everyone, more people die.

HTH.

If you read my posts you would see that I am generally in agreement with following procedure in this situation and I have made that point multiple times. Paddy seems to think the Firemen should have gone all Bruce Willis on the Fire's arse, coz not sure.

I have pointed out that the standing procedure is wrong because the Building inspectors etc are incompetent and the procedure should have been adjusted to cope with flammable insulation but it wasn't, fire safety inspections & approval should still be with the fire brigade.. Those are the key takeaways from Grenfell if you ask me.

The point that the average firefighter attending should have just followed procedure is not in doubt. Walking into the machine guns is what cannon fodder do, the Generals should change the procedure to avoid the machine guns.

Not quite sure what your attempted put down was all about except to demonstrate you didn't understand the thread?

[NotAllThere]

Unfortunately the firefighters are not trained and enabled like the SAS, more like cannon fodder. Again if you fail to follow proceedure you are in trouble.

Grenfell Tower firefighter who tried to rescue people from burning house is sacked for breaking health and safety rules

Yes Health and safety are frequently less than effective.

The idea of procedures, if you've ever worked in a safety critical industry, is to reduce the number of deaths to a minimum. Not to make them zero. That means that sometimes the following of the procedure will result in death.

If procedure is ignored by everyone, more people die.

HTH.

[SueEllen]

Turns out that some of the signatories weren't genuine...

Coronvirus: 'Dr Johnny Bananas' and 'Dr Person Fakename' among medical signatories on herd immunity open letter | UK News | Sky News

Fake News!!

[WTFH]

Turns out that some of the signatories weren't genuine...

Coronvirus: 'Dr Johnny Bananas' and 'Dr Person Fakename' among medical signatories on herd immunity open letter | UK News | Sky News

[vetran]

However, video evidence such as the taken from the cab of a fire engine going towards Grenfell Tower showed the entire outside of the building on fire. Despite this, the fire officers advised the residents to stay inside. Rather than thinking on the ground, they were following orders.

I have been in an office block when it caught fire. The whole floor was told to stay put while the upper floors were evacuated. Eventually we were instructed to evacuate by a set of stairs that was full of smoke and on fire. We chose an alternative route and stairs and got out; got accounted for and then went to the pub. The upshot is, is there is a fire in future, I will get out the building no matter who says otherwise. It seems everything is f**ked in the UK and run by stupid managers and politicians.

Unfortunately the firefighters are not trained and enabled like the SAS, more like cannon fodder. Again if you fail to follow proceedure you are in trouble.

Grenfell Tower firefighter who tried to rescue people from burning house is sacked for breaking health and safety rules

Yes Health and safety are frequently less than effective.