Professional Working Day

[northernladuk]

˙ʎlɹǝdoɹd ʇᴉ op oʇ ʇoƃ ǝʌ,noʎ ʇsᴉɯɹoɟuoɔ uou ǝq oʇ ƃuᴉoƃ ǝɹɐ noʎ ɟI ˙ʇɹoɟɟǝ ɹooԀ

Good idea doh!

[WTFH]

Being a non conformist I'll keep the quote below thanks.

There is a difference between being a non conformist and being a pillock.

Deliberately not using a common sense method when asking for free advice from your peers is just being stupid or trolling.

Can you ban someone for breaking forum netiquette for a day until they behave?

No, but I can move the thread to General, because it's clear this person might know the meaning of "working" or maybe even "day", but certainly not "Professional".

[PurpleGorilla]

My PWD is 8hrs.

After that - it will happen tomorrow guys.

[BR14]

do you have to go to a chelsea kebab shop for a prima donner??

[greenlake]

No, but I can move the thread to General, because it's clear this person might know the meaning of "working" or maybe even "day", but certainly not "Professional".

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

PS. You are wrong about the IR35 aspect. Adhering to clients requirements has very little to do with IR35 and more to do with professional courtesy. Minor flag at best and certainly not enough to lose a gig over.

Disagree. Client requirements should be: "we require X, Y, and Z and believe you are the person most qualified to get it done - please get on with it". Working hours shouldn't come into it - if the client feels like they need a certain amount of hours delivered in a week to feel like they are getting value then fine but specifying you require a bum on seat for "x hours a day" - how does that really make you any different to any other employee?

I now charge a weekly rate and spend no time at all worrying about exactly how many hours I'm working a day - I aim to deliver what I feel is good value for money each week and my clients have had no complaints.

People make comments like "they're the client, they set the terms etc." - that's already the wrong mindset. They sign *my* contract, not the other way around - if they want me to work on their project they need to meet *my* terms. If they don't like it, they can find another supplier.

Unfortunately for OP, if this is how they'd prefer to work (as do I) then it requires a shift in mindset and an approach to how you see your relationship with clients. If you want to be a bum on seat contractor who gets sent to an interview by an agent, signs a contract and goes and sits in the clients office each day and get timesheets signed each week then you're going to struggle with this. You need to move to a more consultancy/freelance model, find work yourself and take on work on more of a project basis. And be prepared to turn down work.

This model is certainly a lot more flexible and you have far less to worry about in terms of IR35 but whether or not you can make this work depend son how well you can market yourself.

[Lance]

I always ask for my contract to refer to 'professional working day' rather than specified hours. I believe this helps with IR35 but also provides flexibility in setting my daily working hours, hence better work life balance. From a client perspective I can flex up and down as necessary depending on deadlines etc.

However, an agent refused to amend the contract and insisted the client requires a set 8hr day. I said I can't work to those restrictions but will meet in the middle and agree to a 40hr week. They said I was being unreasonable and short sighted in refusing to sign the contract if the 8hrs per day wording wasn't removed. Anyone else had these issues ?

As others have said, you're the unreasonable one.

In most cases the client won't know, or care, what's in your schedule. And all you should really care about is whether they sign your timesheets. That's where you want flexibility... the ability to work long hours Mon-Thu and p*** off early on a Friday for example. A professional working day is neither help nor hindrance to that flexibility.

[oscarose]

PWD () = MIN (hours possible)

[MrMarkyMark]

Disagree. Client requirements should be: "we require X, Y, and Z and believe you are the person most qualified to get it done - please get on with it". Working hours shouldn't come into it - if the client feels like they need a certain amount of hours delivered in a week to feel like they are getting value then fine but specifying you require a bum on seat for "x hours a day" - how does that really make you any different to any other employee?

I now charge a weekly rate and spend no time at all worrying about exactly how many hours I'm working a day - I aim to deliver what I feel is good value for money each week and my clients have had no complaints.

People make comments like "they're the client, they set the terms etc." - that's already the wrong mindset. They sign *my* contract, not the other way around - if they want me to work on their project they need to meet *my* terms. If they don't like it, they can find another supplier.

Unfortunately for OP, if this is how they'd prefer to work (as do I) then it requires a shift in mindset and an approach to how you see your relationship with clients. If you want to be a bum on seat contractor who gets sent to an interview by an agent, signs a contract and goes and sits in the clients office each day and get timesheets signed each week then you're going to struggle with this. You need to move to a more consultancy/freelance model, find work yourself and take on work on more of a project basis. And be prepared to turn down work.

This model is certainly a lot more flexible and you have far less to worry about in terms of IR35 but whether or not you can make this work depend son how well you can market yourself.

This.

In addition, in my current case, it is stated in my contract it is up to me when I provide the hours (obviously you have to manage this effectively for them and yourself) during a working week.

Anything above 5 hours, in one day, is paid as a full day.
I believe PWD is stated in the contract as 8 hours, but the above clause supersedes that.

The client has always let it be known to me, over quite a number of projects, I provide real value.

They are quite happy for me to be at home, working as I see fit, to (over) deliver that.

[WTFH]

As I said earlier, you wouldn't have faced such issues if you had discussed with the client at the interview.

I would never attempt trying to broker this through the agent, after the event, as you may face resistance, as you have found.

What you sign with the agent and what you agree with the client can be two very different things, as long as the client is prepared to pay the invoices from the agent, then the agent won't care.
It does require being professional and working with the client to get a suitable outcome.

I worked for a client who made their permies fill out timesheets online. The system was set up in the US as a 40 hour week. The UK staff worked a 37.5 hour week. One of the permies put in 7.5hr days, 5 days a week. Every week he got a warning to say he had not worked 40 hours.
I explained to him to just put down 8 hours per day and that would be OK, no one would care. He refused saying that if he put down 8 hours, that means he was being paid less because he was doing 2.5 hours per week free. Didn't matter that he didn't do the work, he saw it as being a reduction in his salary.