Scottish independence referendum Mk 2

[shaunbhoy]

truth is that no one knows what would have happened

But everyone knows what DID happen.............except for the feeble-minded Canute types that still can't accept a 55/45 victory for the Union.

[TestMangler]

But everyone knows what DID happen.............except for the feeble-minded Canute types that still can't accept a 55/45 victory for the Union.

Are you deliberately trying to be a fucking thicko or are you actually just a fucking thicko ?

[vetran]

Some of the thicker brexiteers (and those who ridiculed the last independence referendum) were claiming as fact that Indy Scotland would 'not be allowed' to do business with rUK.

truth is that no one knows what would have happened or what will happen and any strong opinion is supposition, usually sprinkled with a liberal dose of utter shite.

as pointed out above if Scotland leaves and joins the EU then rUK will not have any control over whether we can deal with Scotland favourably. That is entirely up to the EU and they have made it clear they will punish the UK for our treason.

Its entirely clear we would want to keep Scotland close (despite us winding up Plastic expat Scots) but we won't be able to.

[shaunbhoy]

Are you deliberately trying to be a fucking thicko or are you actually just a fucking thicko ?

As I said..........feeble-minded canute types...................

Scottish independence referendum - Results - BBC News

[PurpleGorilla]

See, here's the contradiction. You want an independent Scotland. Check. You want Scotland to be a full EU member. Check. In which case Scotland would have to be in the Eurozone as a prerequisite of membership and signed up to 'ever closer union'. You will have 6 MEPs representing you in the European parliament out of 700+.

As Scotland would be in the EU, EU rules would mandate a hard border between Scotland and England. (Probably like the one they'll have to build between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland). And even if rUK wanted to treat Scotland like a friend (and I don't see why we wouldn't), Scotland's ability to do business with rUK will be out of its hands, that will be firmly in the hands of the EU.

Explain how that is independence for Scotland? It is separation from the UK, but it is not independence.

Yes, I think after brexit vote Scotland would need to sign up to the EU with more gusto than before it. This might mean adopting the Euro.

It was a favourable wind in the previous indi vote. Now with oil so low, and the rUK out I do think that it would be VERY hard for Scotland.

But here is the thing. It's not all about economics. I keep saying this about brexit. It's not all about economics. It is about sovereignty, the right of self determination, control. How can anyone restrain a country who's majority want that?

[shaunbhoy]

How can anyone restrain a country who's majority want that?

Morally and democratically, they shouldn't be restrained.

Thing is, the stumbling block is that the majority in Scotland have recently said that they DON'T want that.

Makes it much less complicated on all sorts of levels.

All that is required is that this message be fed down to the reactionary Luddites in the SNP.

Simples.

[The Spartan]

Even if Scotland left the UK, they'd still have a long way to go judging by the criteria needed to join the EU that they don't currently meet.

[PurpleGorilla]

Morally and democratically, they shouldn't be restrained.

Thing is, the stumbling block is that the majority in Scotland have recently said that they DON'T want that.

Makes it much less complicated on all sorts of levels.

All that is required is that this message be fed down to the reactionary Luddites in the SNP.

Simples.

Salmond was on R4 saying there have been 16 polls since indi ref and 15 show increased interest in indi. I can't find the data.

[PurpleGorilla]

Scottish independence referendum Mk 2

Even if Scotland left the UK, they'd still have a long way to go judging by the criteria needed to join the EU that they don't currently meet.

Scotland is already a member of the EU being part of the UK, it just needs to retain membership when the UK leaves.

There are so many special circumstances; Denmark and Greenland, Denmark and the Fareo Islands, UK and Channel Islands, UK and Isle of Man, Spain and Gibraltar, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, France and Monaco, Spain/France and Andorra, San Marino and Italy, the Vatican and Italy...

The EU makes out that it would be exceptional to have Scotland as a devolved member. But that is nonsense when you consider how many other special and exceptional circumstances exist in Europe.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

I will say that again because it is all that matters.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

The Spanish are against Scotland keeping membership when the rUK leaves because it doesn't want the same thing to happen with parts of Spain. So there isn't a collective 'will' to make this happen in the EU (Scot annexation and membership).

Look I must be in a minority here because I am pro Scot Indi and pro UK brexit. But it has to be what the majority want, that is democracy surely!

[d000hg]

Oh dear, d000hgy, your ego certainly precedes you. In what world of sky fairies and battered Mars Bars does "she says she would, and I believe her" constitute an argument, let alone a "demolition"? You have an opinion, and it suffers from the distinct disadvantage of being wrong.

Making an argument based on what Nicola has actually said and how she's acted is rather more effective than just making an assertion based on absolutely no facts at all "nobody takes her seriously anymore".