Scottish independence referendum Mk 2

[darmstadt]

I'm sure you had a point in your head, but the relevant thread is two stops down on the left.

I know, just can't be bothered...

[PurpleGorilla]

I am pro Scottish independence, I was before Scotref and I am after Brexit.

If a nation wants independence, then let the people have what they want.

I would like to think that if Scotland left the rest of the UK would give Scotland a fair deal and treat it like a friend.

[darmstadt]

I am pro Scottish independence, I was before Scotref and I am after Brexit.

If a nation wants independence, then let the people have what they want.

I would like to think that if Scotland left the rest of the UK would give Scotland a fair deal and treat it like a friend.

Production here might be ramped up

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[shaunbhoy]

If a nation wants independence, then let the people have what they want.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The problem of course is, when given the choice, it was a fairly comprehensive mandate for remaining in the Union.

[chopper]

I would like to think that if Scotland left the rest of the UK would give Scotland a fair deal and treat it like a friend.

See, here's the contradiction. You want an independent Scotland. Check. You want Scotland to be a full EU member. Check. In which case Scotland would have to be in the Eurozone as a prerequisite of membership and signed up to 'ever closer union'. You will have 6 MEPs representing you in the European parliament out of 700+.

As Scotland would be in the EU, EU rules would mandate a hard border between Scotland and England. (Probably like the one they'll have to build between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland). And even if rUK wanted to treat Scotland like a friend (and I don't see why we wouldn't), Scotland's ability to do business with rUK will be out of its hands, that will be firmly in the hands of the EU.

Explain how that is independence for Scotland? It is separation from the UK, but it is not independence.

[TestMangler]

See, here's the contradiction. You want an independent Scotland. Check. You want Scotland to be a full EU member. Check. In which case Scotland would have to be in the Eurozone as a prerequisite of membership and signed up to 'ever closer union'. You will have 6 MEPs representing you in the European parliament out of 700+.

As Scotland would be in the EU, EU rules would mandate a hard border between Scotland and England. (Probably like the one they'll have to build between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland). And even if rUK wanted to treat Scotland like a friend (and I don't see why we wouldn't), Scotland's ability to do business with rUK will be out of its hands, that will be firmly in the hands of the EU.

Explain how that is independence for Scotland? It is separation from the UK, but it is not independence.

But as the Brexiters keep telling us, the UK will have full unfettered access to the single market because they need us more than we need them, so what's the problem ?

[shaunbhoy]

But as the Brexiters keep telling us, the UK will have full unfettered access to the single market because they need us more than we need them, so what's the problem ?

The problem is that you had the chance and you bottled it.

HTH

[chopper]

But as the Brexiters keep telling us, the UK will have full unfettered access to the single market because they need us more than we need them, so what's the problem ?

It makes perfect economic sense on both sides for the UK to continue to have unfettered access to trade with the EU - our goods and services already comply with EU regulation, after all.

However, the European Economic Community we signed up for in the 1970s became a political union, and politicians don't act rationally when the gravy train is under threat. Noses will be bitten to spite faces everywhere. After all, it wont be the politicians of the European Union who will suffer.

It is moot. On the day that Scotland becomes independent from the UK, it will not be an EU member. It will have no trade deal with anywhere in the world other than rUK.

[shaunbhoy]

On the day that Scotland becomes independent from the UK, it will not be an EU member. It will have no trade deal with anywhere in the world other than rUK.

It won't necessarily even have a deal with rUK at that point. Still, I don't suppose that will bother Nicola and the other shortbread fascists.
I am sure SHE will be fine.

[TestMangler]

It makes perfect economic sense on both sides for the UK to continue to have unfettered access to trade with the EU - our goods and services already comply with EU regulation, after all.

However, the European Economic Community we signed up for in the 1970s became a political union, and politicians don't act rationally when the gravy train is under threat. Noses will be bitten to spite faces everywhere. After all, it wont be the politicians of the European Union who will suffer.

It is moot. On the day that Scotland becomes independent from the UK, it will not be an EU member. It will have no trade deal with anywhere in the world other than rUK.

Some of the thicker brexiteers (and those who ridiculed the last independence referendum) were claiming as fact that Indy Scotland would 'not be allowed' to do business with rUK.

truth is that no one knows what would have happened or what will happen and any strong opinion is supposition, usually sprinkled with a liberal dose of utter shite.