Scottish independence referendum Mk 2

[chopper]

Salmond was on R4 saying there have been 16 polls since indi ref and 15 show increased interest in indi. I can't find the data.

Allow me to help you with that.

How would you vote in a Scottish independence referendum if held now? (asked after the EU referendum) | What Scotland Thinks

Scots don't support a second independence referendum

So there is no majority support for Scotland to be independent from the UK.

[The_Equalizer]

Salmond was on R4 saying there have been 16 polls since indi ref and 15 show increased interest in indi. I can't find the data.

But did any show that it would occur? What's the point of this Indy2? Do the majority of Scots hate the English enough (because this is what is seems to be about) to smash a 300-year-old union for the sake of a 60-year-old one that might well not last the next few years? Do Scots not have a quick look at the state of southern European nations? If the SNP were serious then why not get on with governing Scotland first and prove their ideas are viable?

[The Spartan]

Scotland is already a member of the EU being part of the UK, it just needs to retain membership when the UK leaves.

There are so many special circumstances; Denmark and Greenland, UK and Channel Islands, Spain and Gibraltar, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, France and Monaco, Spain/France and Andorra, San Marino and Italy, the Vatican and Italy...

The EU makes out that it would be exceptional to have Scotland as a devolved member. But that is nonsense when you consider how many other special and exceptional circumstances exist in Europe.

So how do they get their budget deficit down to 3% or less from the current 8-10%?

[PurpleGorilla]

But did any show that it would occur? What's the point of this Indy2? Do the majority of Scots hate the English enough (because this is what is seems to be about) to smash a 300-year-old union for the sake of a 60-year-old one that might well not last the next few years? Do Scots not have a quick look at the state of southern European nations? If the SNP were serious then why not get on with governing Scotland first and prove their ideas are viable?

I don't know mate, I haven't seen the table!

[PurpleGorilla]

Scottish independence referendum Mk 2

So how do they get their budget deficit down to 3% or less from the current 8-10%?

Deep water oil drilling on the West and Atlantic Coast;

https://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news...rth-trillions/

[d000hg]

But did any show that it would occur? What's the point of this Indy2? Do the majority of Scots hate the English enough (because this is what is seems to be about) to smash a 300-year-old union for the sake of a 60-year-old one that might well not last the next few years? Do Scots not have a quick look at the state of southern European nations? If the SNP were serious then why not get on with governing Scotland first and prove their ideas are viable?

Like Brexit it as least as much about pride and sentiment as genuine belief in economic positions. Good old patriotism an principle.

Scotland is SO pro-EU that being pulled out against their will, especially after all the mess of indyref and the last minute platitudes from Cameron et al, puts them in an awkward position. It's a perfect illustration of Scotland's place and importance in the UK - which is to say not much.

I think once Brexit is on some sort of real timeline, or has terms decided, they should have another referendum and get it out of the way. Otherwise this grumbling will only continue to fester. Lance the wound and see what they want.

[The Spartan]

Deep water oil drilling on the West and Atlantic Coast;

https://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news...rth-trillions/

I stopped at

Scotland could be

[chopper]

But here is the thing. It's not all about economics. I keep saying this about brexit. It's not all about economics. It is about sovereignty, the right of self determination, control. How can anyone restrain a country who's majority want that?

The question I ask keeps being unanswered.

How is Scotland leaving the UK and becoming a member of the EU in any way, shape or form 'independence'?

That Scotland would not be free to trade with rUK or have an open land border with England if it so wished very much means you would NOT have the right of self determination or control. (lets call it SDC). That it would be forced to use the Euro, a currency of compromise for the economies of 19 different countries from Germany to Greece.

And tell me, how is 'ever closer union' - because Scotland would have to comply with that - anything other than a path away from independence.

Scotland could not adopt the UK's EU membership, because it could not afford to make the UK's current contributions to the EU budget on its own, and indeed would need to be a net recipient of EU funds rather than a net contributor. So it would need to be a new member in its own right. Scotland is not a signatory to the EU treaties, the UK is.

If Scotland wanted independence, and by that I mean the majority of people who vote for it say 'yes' to be an independent nation rather than the minority, which is currently the case, then absolutely we wont stop you and the deal should absolutely be fair to both sides. (Some Scottish people believe Scotland should not take its share of the national debt with it, for example. Doesn't sound fair to me. Sounds like the "I Want, I Want, I Want" attitude some people have accused Theresa May of). But don't then pretend that splitting from the UK and becoming fully fledged EU members is independence, because it isn't. It is just a minority of hardline Scottish nationalists spurred on by a left wing political party with a grudge against the English that they can't actually explain.

Scotland already has plenty of self determination and control devolved to it from the UK - free universities, free prescriptions, the ability to set its own income tax levels (which it has declined to do thus far), the ability to set its own stamp duty levels and various other devolved powers.

[DonaldJTrump]

How is Scotland leaving the UK and becoming a member of the EU in any way, shape or form 'independence'?

That Scotland would not be free to trade with rUK or have an open land border with England

What build another wall?

[The_Equalizer]

Like Brexit it as least as much about pride and sentiment as genuine belief in economic positions. Good old patriotism an principle.

Scotland is SO pro-EU that being pulled out against their will, especially after all the mess of indyref and the last minute platitudes from Cameron et al, puts them in an awkward position. It's a perfect illustration of Scotland's place and importance in the UK - which is to say not much.

I think once Brexit is on some sort of real timeline, or has terms decided, they should have another referendum and get it out of the way. Otherwise this grumbling will only continue to fester. Lance the wound and see what they want.

This is totally gut feeling (so therefore pretty meaningless), however, I would suggest Scotland's pro-EU stance was down to a combination of SNP voters plus a chunk of pro-Union Scots trying to avoid another indy ref by voting Remain. I feel it's worth noting that for Brexit 1,661,191 voted Remain. For the Scotish Indy vote 1,617,989 went with Yes and 2,001,926 with No.