[Merged]Brexit stuff

[GB9]

You mean like parliamentary sovereignty..... but our government wants to use Royal Prerogative to bypass parliament?

Parliament voted 6-1 to have the referendum.
The Government stated it would enact the result.
The Government holds jurisdiction in such matters.

The fact they even went to the country demonstrates that this decision was over and above Parliament.

Even the House of Lords agrees that they won't stop Brexit.

[shaunbhoy]

What's your vision for the EU?

I am afraid that OG's vision of most things doesn't extend further than the end of his bulbous nose, and even then it tends to be rather blurred and short-sighted. If and when he DOES state any preference, it tends to be predicated on whatever gloomy nonsense the Grauniad has filled his cobwebbed little cranium with on that day.

[Old Greg]

The European Parliament is nominally democratic too. There are various flavours (and corruptions) of democracy. Being nominally democratic is not sufficient. The problem with the EU is not simply one of process (many of our own processes are flawed), but one of scale. It's near impossible to sustain a functioning democracy (or autocracy or anything in between) at the level of a superstate. This isn't a new problem. Wallonia and Greece are symptoms of the same, fundamental, problem. This is why I have some sympathy for the Scots in seeking their own independence, although I think the economic/democratic trade-off is rather different there. There's a trade-off between pooling responsibility and overly aggregating and abstracting the views of a population, and that trade-off seems to be beyond your (and others) perception. Logically, one must assume that you'd support the expansion of the EU far beyond its current boundaries. Why should geography be an impediment? What is your vision for the EU several decades from now?

I'm anticipating something glib, perhaps formulated as a series of questions, in order to divert and obfuscate. It's a defence mechanism. You're afraid to have any sort of meaningful discussion, I predict. What's your vision for the EU?

I don't support the EU.

[vetran]

I've lived in fantasy land for years.

FTFY

You might have escaped to EU light but its still pretty much managed by the EU.

note despite the Brexit vote we the UK are still in the EU and fighting to get out.

Of course if you don't live anywhere in the EU you have even less right than the SNP to spout about Brexit. Pretend you are Obama and tell us how important it is we stay in.

[jamesbrown]

I thought we needed to get out of the EU because it is an evil EUSSR superstate within which individual nation states do not have sovereignty.

Great to see we need to leave the EU for two contradictory reasons. All fits with the general http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness thing that's going on at the moment.

The European Parliament is nominally democratic too. There are various flavours (and corruptions) of democracy. Being nominally democratic is not sufficient. The problem with the EU is not simply one of process (many of our own processes are flawed), but one of scale. It's near impossible to sustain a functioning democracy (or autocracy or anything in between) at the level of a superstate. This isn't a new problem. Wallonia and Greece are symptoms of the same, fundamental, problem. This is why I have some sympathy for the Scots in seeking their own independence, although I think the economic/democratic trade-off is rather different there. There's a trade-off between pooling responsibility and overly aggregating and abstracting the views of a population, and that trade-off seems to be beyond your (and others) perception. Logically, one must assume that you'd support the expansion of the EU far beyond its current boundaries. Why should geography be an impediment? What is your vision for the EU several decades from now?

I'm anticipating something glib, perhaps formulated as a series of questions, in order to divert and obfuscate. It's a defence mechanism. You're afraid to have any sort of meaningful discussion, I predict. What's your vision for the EU?

[BlasterBates]

Perhaps Scotland should break away from it's dictatorial neighbour and become a member of the EU where it can block deals 5 or 6 times larger than the deals it currently has no say in at all.

English minister dictates to Scotland that it must do as the English say

[Lance]

Great to see we need to leave the EU for two contradictory reasons.

You mean like parliamentary sovereignty..... but our government wants to use Royal Prerogative to bypass parliament?

[Old Greg]

Shows why we need to get out of the Eu if the equivalent of 1 county council and scupper a continent wide deal?

As for the impact it has on us, we prepare for a hard exit, sort out deals with other parts of the world and see what happens. It's the only thing the UK can do...

I thought we needed to get out of the EU because it is an evil EUSSR superstate within which individual nation states do not have sovereignty.

Great to see we need to leave the EU for two contradictory reasons. All fits with the general http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness thing that's going on at the moment.

[eek]

Bad news for any Wrexiters believing they'll have a trade deal with the EU all sown up before closing time.

Belgium Walloons block key EU Ceta trade deal with Canada

Although I personally would have liked to have seen this one go through.

Shows why we need to get out of the Eu if the equivalent of 1 county council and scupper a continent wide deal?

As for the impact it has on us, we prepare for a hard exit, sort out deals with other parts of the world and see what happens. It's the only thing the UK can do...

[scooterscot]

Bad news for any Wrexiters believing they'll have a trade deal with the EU all sown up before closing time.

Belgium Walloons block key EU Ceta trade deal with Canada

Although I personally would have liked to have seen this one go through.