[Merged]Brexit stuff

[shaunbhoy]

Arse, elbow comes to mind

In your case I am sure it is a regular occurrence. If only someone could introduce the pair!

[DodgyAgent]

Did your teachers die young from sheer frustration? What's your point, Sir Duncealot?

My point is that the UK is a net importer of goods and services and it is the world's 5th largest economy you seem to think that it is some sort of privilege for us to be "allowed" to trade with other nations. My point is that the UK is more important to most economies than they are to the UK.

[sirja]

As I said. He wants hard facts. Not spurious garbage.

If you deal in hard facts then what are they. What would be the impact of a 4% tariff to both the UK and the EU in terms of jobs?

Here's a hard fact for you.
If the UK does not agree a trade deal with the EU and falls back on WTO basis of trade then this is what happens with your 4% tariff:
The UK could indeed put a 4% tariff on EU goods, but and this is the the real dozy, under WTO rules they would have to do the same to ALL countries they do not have a trade deal with. Yep you read that correctly. Do we have a trade deal with Japan, S korea, India, Brazil, US? No? then it's 4% tariff on their goods as well. Why do you think the head of the WTO said WTO basis of trade would not be in the UK's interest? Additionally the WTO rules actually recognizes the concept of a 'Regional Trade Agreement', of which the EU is one. WTO rules allow such RTA to discriminate against non members. So if the UK was trading with the EU under WTO rules, it would be perfectly legal for the EU to implement any kind of trade policy be it regulatory or tariff based to favour EU good and service over UK imports and the UK would not be able to do diddly squat about it.

All this information is widely available but I guess David Davis will need to spend another £250 k on lawyers and advisers before the penny drops.

Facts eh. Damm inconvenient things

[sirja]

David Davies, 11th July:



David Davies, now:



Arse, elbow comes to mind

Haha

That sound you hear from whitehall, is the gnashing of teeth and breaking of crockery, as Davis and his fellow delusional fanatics ever so slowly start to get acquainted with Lady Reality. A real mean gal she is!!

[GB9]

Here's a hard fact for you.
If the UK does not agree a trade deal with the EU and falls back on WTO basis of trade then this is what happens with your 4% tariff:
The UK could indeed put a 4% tariff on EU goods, but and this is the the real dozy, under WTO rules they would have to do the same to ALL countries they do not have a trade deal with. Yep you read that correctly. Do we have a trade deal with Japan, S korea, India, Brazil, US? No? then it's 4% tariff on their goods as well. Why do you think the head of the WTO said WTO basis of trade would not be in the UK's interest? Additionally the WTO rules actually recognizes the concept of a 'Regional Trade Agreement', of which the EU is one. WTO rules allow such RTA to discriminate against non members. So if the UK was trading with the EU under WTO rules, it would be perfectly legal for the EU to implement any kind of trade policy be it regulatory or tariff based to favour EU good and service over UK imports and the UK would not be able to do diddly squat about it.

All this information is widely available but I guess David Davis will need to spend another £250 k on lawyers and advisers before the penny drops.

Facts eh. Damm inconvenient things

You haven't provided any facts. Just the usual posturing bull tulipe.

How many jobs? How much investment? If you think you're much cleverer that the guys doing the job then why don't you give us some facts as you keep promising instead of the usual hot air.

[GB9]

Haha

That sound you hear from whitehall, is the gnashing of teeth and breaking of crockery, as Davis and his fellow delusional fanatics ever so slowly start to get acquainted with Lady Reality. A real mean gal she is!!

Nothing we weren't aware of. We just don't give up easily like you socialists do.

[The_Equalizer]

... it would be perfectly legal for the EU to implement any kind of trade policy be it regulatory or tariff based to favour EU good and service over UK imports and the UK would not be able to do diddly squat about it.

And surely this would lead to the UK slapping on silly taxes on imports of German cars etc, neither which are in the interest of either party? If the EU were to put up such trade barriers, it's basically turning the EU into an internal market unless, of course, these draconian measures were solely for the UK. As is repeatedly pointed out on this forum, it's not a case of what might happen, it's a case of what is likely to happen ie beneficial for both parties.

[GB9]

And surely this would lead to the UK slapping on silly taxes on imports of German cars etc, neither which are in the interest of either party? If the EU were to put up such trade barriers, it's basically turning the EU into an internal market unless, of course, these draconian measures were solely for the UK. As is repeatedly pointed out on this forum, it's not a case of what might happen, it's a case of what is likely to happen ie beneficial for both parties.

And this is why it's important to negotiate with the heads of state rather than the unelected commission.

The commission seem more interested in their ideology than how many jobs will be lost by German car manufacturers. This will hit home very soon.

While we're waiting it would be useful if srja would provide us with some facts around the impact of tariffs as he seems to know better than anyone else. So far all we have had is the usual 'they're just realising how difficult it will be' but no substance.

How much profit and how many jobs would a 4% tariff cost?

[sasguru]

My point is that the UK is a net importer of goods and services and it is the world's 5th largest economy you seem to think that it is some sort of privilege for us to be "allowed" to trade with other nations. My point is that the UK is more important to most economies than they are to the UK.

- The UK is a net exporter of services, that's how we survive. There's a massive deficit in goods.
- The fall in the pound means we are the 6th largest economy, after France
- The UK is definitely NOT more important to the US, China or EU as whole, than they are to the UK (4% of world GDP).

What's the point of debating these issues when you are are clearly so misinformed and delusional?

[sasguru]

And surely this would lead to the UK slapping on silly taxes on imports of German cars etc, neither which are in the interest of either party?

The EU tax on external cars is 10%. Let's assume this is the mutual tax in a tit for tat war.
The German luxury brands would simple pass the 10% on to the buyers, who are not price sensitive (German cars being a status symbol in the UK).
The "British" (Japanese) companies would not be able to without losing market share.

End result: we hurt more. The Japs have already made clear that it's going to be "Sayonara" if the the single market is not an option.

HTH, BIDI.

Here are some stats on the UK car industry:
http://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/01/best-y...h-record-high/

Note that the EU takes nearly 60% and the biggest rise. There have been huge declines in exports to Russia and China.
If EU buyers (market of 500 million) move to buying Citroens/Peugeots/ Volkswagens because British Qashqais and Hondas are 10% mpore expensive, I'm guessing they'd more than make up for the loss of British sales.