[Merged]Brexit stuff

[xoggoth]

Thought it was backsliding when I saw the headlines, but reading the articles think she may be being sensible.

A points-based system would give foreign nationals the right to come to Britain if they meet certain criteria: an immigration system that works for Britain would ensure that the right to decide who comes to the country resides with the government.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...britain-brexit

There should be minimal requirements set. I'd include speaking English, good health, no significant criminal record, acceptance of our main values - democracy and secular society etc. and an ability and willingness to integrate. But otherwise it depends where the shortages are and who we need at any time.

[DodgyAgent]

Thought it was backsliding when I saw the headlines, but reading the articles think she may be being sensible.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...britain-brexit

There should be minimal requirements set. I'd include speaking English, good health, no significant criminal record, acceptance of our main values - democracy and secular society etc. and an ability and willingness to integrate. But otherwise it depends where the shortages are and who we need at any time.

Unfortunately it will mean the dead hand of Government managing the bureaucracy of the application process.

[GB9]

So you don't want to use points system to make sure only the best candidates get in?

As per Xog's post below: we let in who we need and we decide. There's no point in letting in 10 great architects if we need nurses.

[AtW]

As per Xog's post below: we let in who we need and we decide. There's no point in letting in 10 great architects if we need nurses.

How do you decide who will get in without some kinds of analytical points based system that would let in best people?

[sasguru]

Unfortunately it will mean the dead hand of Government managing the bureaucracy of the application process.

Quite. And employers who don't want red tape will simply move their offices to a European location where they can hire who they want. With the added bonus of accessing a much larger market. The brains will follow them.

Globalisation means a a global market for talent.

[DodgyAgent]

Quite. And employers who don't want red tape will simply move their offices to a European location where they can hire who they want. With the added bonus of accessing a much larger market. The brains will follow them.

Globalisation means a a global market for talent.

There are a couple of points here. Firstly it is a myth that high end skills move freely around the EU. Albeit this is research from a few years ago the skills needed do not move.

http://www.hwwi.org/fileadmin/hwwi/P...NG_ANSICHT.pdf



Highly skilled migrants are in some cases buying their job by working below their formal qualifications
at the new place of work. At the same time, a job for which they are actually overqualified
is the better choice for them, provided this represents the (only) alternative to unemployment
in the short run.
• In addition, the gap between skills offered and those demanded by the labour market widened
rapidly during the crisis, especially in the crisis-hit countries but also in the eurozone overall. The
skill mismatch implies high structural deficits on the labour markets in the eurozone that cannot
be overcome by more labour mobility alone.
• The rising average age of the population is likely to dampen labour mobility within Europe in
the future. This makes it all the more important to address structural reforms in order to boost
employment growth in Europe and the eurozone.
• Mobility within Europe remains a complex phenomenon, driven by a range of factors. For this
reason, it is also hard to predict migration flows going forward


I cannot think of the other point

[GB9]

How do you decide who will get in without some kinds of analytical points based system that would let in best people?

What's this thing you have about the 'best' people? It's the most appropriate people that we want. We may ask for nurses with certain qualifications if that's what is required at the time. That wouldn't allow in architects, predominantly because they wouldn't be nurses.

Under a purely points based system we could get the best architects but no nurses. Not a fat lot of use if we already have architects and no nurses!

[AtW]

What's this thing you have about the 'best' people? It's the most appropriate people that we want. We may ask for nurses with certain qualifications if that's what is required at the time.

So would you prefer a nurse with certain required qualification plus 10 years of experience plus English to level of IELTS 7 or would you instead take nurse who just graduated with IELTS score of 5.5?

[stek]

Tier 2 ICT visas are capped too, but the ones that don't lead to ILR aren't, just get kicked out after five years.

[BlasterBates]

If there is a quota system it sounds very "Soviet Union", with politicians deciding who we need. This approach means some businesses will get their people and others won't.

At the moment businesses decide who they want and they get them. When the new rules come in they'll have spend a huge amount of time discussing their open positions with bureaucrats and politicians.

A bureaucrat at the immigration dept, has absolutely no idea about the suitability of a candidate for a particular job, and nor does he have any idea about how whether job A or job B is more or less important for the economy. In effect bureaucrats will decide which businesses fail or succeed.