In or Out?

[Chuck]

poor people vote Labour.

In the examples quoted above, you could write that as "poor people vote to stay poor". After generations of poverty and neglect, just how has Labour helped these people?

The tribal nature of politics in this country is toxic to those who can not effect change in their lives through the ballot box.

[darmstadt]

Source?

As per d000hg, source please.

Same as yours: https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...privation-2015. There's a lot of documentation there so you might need to bone up on data mining but I believe that the press have already done this for you, Google is your friend

[scooterscot]

You're clearly for an independent Scotland so you've not really got the interests of the United Kingdom at heart.

The lack of interest is the result, not the start. Were the UK indeed economically united in equality rather than a pocket of wealth in one corner I'm sure I'd be much more interested. Just like those in the north of England.

We're a nation divided because of progressive governents acting out of self interest rather than those that voted for them.

[SueEllen]

Interesting... of the 17 voting in



How many are immigrants, ex pats or paid trolls?

Some of them are known to have worked in Europe or sourced work from Europe so see the free movement of people and trade as valuable to their interests.

Which is why I will vote in . Though I may vote out first to see if we can actually get something "better" from Europe. However as UK politicians lie I don't know what "better" is.

[DimPrawn]

In the examples quoted above, you could write that as "poor people vote to stay poor". After generations of poverty and neglect, just how has Labour helped these people?

The tribal nature of politics in this country is toxic to those who can not effect change in their lives through the ballot box.

[The_Equalizer]

The lack of interest is the result, not the start. Were the UK indeed economically united in equality rather than a pocket of wealth in one corner I'm sure I'd be much more interested. Just like those in the north of England.

We're a nation divided because of progressive governents acting out of self interest rather than those that voted for them.

Don't disagree re. self-interest of the government, but I don't see that as a reason to split the UK nor continue down the road of a EU - quite the opposite. And the pocket of wealth in the South East is an illusion for most, especially those under 40. Any benefit of better paying jobs is outstripped by eye watering cost of living (mainly housing costs) and poorer quality of life.

Whilst mentioning self-interest of government, I'm somewhat saddened to see that May and Johnson look to have been 'bought off' by Cameron. Will Gove have the bottle?

[seanraaron]

That said Troll does have a point. You're clearly for an independent Scotland so you've not really got the interests of the United Kingdom at heart. I have a sneaky feeling that there are a number of people in this camp - think 'Lord' Mandelson. Then again, you might just force another Scottish indy ref if there's Brexit. Oh the quandary!

I don't see anything worth saving about the UK in its present, unbalanced form. If the Lords was binned and replaced with an upper house modelled on the US Senate with equal representation for members and the ability to amend or block legislation from Parliament I think you'd have a much better balance of power.

America has a lot of problems, but the bicameral legislature which avoids the "tyranny of the majority" is something they got right. Without it, it's unlikely the colonies could have stayed together against the British.

As always the question is: do the English (or Londoners, if you prefer) truly wish to share power with the smaller portions of the United Kingdom or just make occasional noises to make them feel like their opinion is at all relevant? Because if the United Kingdom is important to England then I cannot see a reason to block constitutional reform and re-defining what the United Kingdom is and how it operates.

So far we've got this lame EVEL thing, which isn't as clear-cut as some think and doesn't actually resolve the issue of having Scottish MPs voting on laws for England and Wales, and a new Scotland bill. Haven't heard anything else about constitutional reform, but I guess pretending to get a "better deal" from the EU is more important than the future of the country.

[NickFitz]

How many are immigrants, ex pats or paid trolls?

I admit it, I don't have a British passport.

Though that's only because I never go abroad so there was no point renewing it

[d000hg]

In the examples quoted above, you could write that as "poor people vote to stay poor".

You could, if you were callously ignorant. Or you could say that the north-south divide is actually quite real and post-mining, the north still hasn't recovered.

You'll note that that the Tory government is in charge of all these areas ultimately; local areas don't have that much power (yet).

[scooterscot]

Don't disagree re. self-interest of the government, but I don't see that as a reason to split the UK nor continue down the road of a EU - quite the opposite. And the pocket of wealth in the South East is an illusion for most, especially those under 40. Any benefit of better paying jobs is outstripped by eye watering cost of living (mainly housing costs) and poorer quality of life.

Whilst mentioning self-interest of government, I'm somewhat saddened to see that May and Johnson look to have been 'bought off' by Cameron. Will Gove have the bottle?

It seems ironic our own MPs biggest gripe about the EU is self interested MEPs. Pot calling kettle black. They're threatened by the competition of power & greed. The people of the UK are a consequence to be sidestepped.

I agree about the illusion of wealth.