"I read somewhere..."

[vetran]

Most likely to be the misogynist past of women having to over-achieve to get recognised rather than anything current.

Not sure its over achievement. The greats are still streets ahead of most and they do seem to be male.


Now I'll accept men were more likely to do science but women were likely to write books but 'Pride & Predjuidice', Mrs Beaton & Frankenstein are about as good as it gets.

[mudskipper]

Historically, women were largely restricted to the domestic sphere, so less likely to achieve fame.

[vetran]

Historically, women were largely restricted to the domestic sphere, so less likely to achieve fame.

or did they confine themselves to it?

[mudskipper]

or did they confine themselves to it?

Society and tradition.

[vetran]

Society and tradition.

Indeed but many of the greats ignored those completely which is what I remind my girls. Only You can make yourself great. society can have other ideas if it wants!

[SueEllen]

Indeed but many of the greats ignored those completely which is what I remind my girls. Only You can make yourself great. society can have other ideas if it wants!

Women were considered men's property so were put in asylums or nunneries if they didn't behave the way the powerful man in their life wanted.

[mudskipper]

Indeed but many of the greats ignored those completely which is what I remind my girls. Only You can make yourself great. society can have other ideas if it wants!

So taking art as an example - it was not considered appropriate for women to attend life classes. Your girls would have risked their reputations by doing so. As their dad, I doubt you would have been encouraging them. You would have been happy to encourage them to paint flowers. Unfortunately, flowers didn't really rate - largely because women painted them.

Things are different now - there are far fewer constraints. But if you (and your girls) were living in the 18th century, you would not have been encouraging them to push boundaries. It's a mistake to think you would have had your current attitudes had you been around back then.

[LondonManc]

Kim Kardashian is regarded by many young women as a role model. Nuff said.

[I just need to test it]

Not sure its over achievement. The greats are still streets ahead of most and they do seem to be male.


Now I'll accept men were more likely to do science but women were likely to write books but 'Pride & Predjuidice', Mrs Beaton & Frankenstein are about as good as it gets.

Yeah, women write rubbish. Blokes like George Eliot, A. M. Barnard and the Bell brothers wrote much better stuff.

[vetran]

Yeah, women write rubbish. Blokes like George Eliot, A. M. Barnard and the Bell brothers wrote much better stuff.

Some dopey bird being squired by the local nobility who then desert them or ladies obsessed by a chaps britches are not quite the same as On the Origin of the species, The Prince or De revolutionibus orbium coelestium. All of which were written by people fighting convention and who seriously risked life & limb.