Are you supporting Air strikes against "IS" in Syria ?

[xoggoth]

You missed out "Someone who believes that military action should only be taken as part of a comprehensive strategy for dealing with the fundamental issues, not as an ill-thought-out reaction by a politician who plans only for next week's Daily Mail headlines."

Indeed. Let us hope there is a long term plan for Syria. Military action needs to be part of a negotiation involving Assad and his allies, the so called moderates and other Muslim states who are also involved in military action.

Islamic State: Where key countries stand

Islamic State: Where key countries stand - BBC News

However, this is probably one of those very rare cases where the usual Western foreign policy cock-up cannot possibly be worse than what will happen, establishment of an extreme Islamic state with global ambitions, if nothing at all is done.

[sirja]

Dropping a few more bombs is going to solve absolutly nothing.

We need to understand, that the combined effects of the 'Arab Spring' and the Invasion of Iraq has been the complete collapse of the Post WW1 settlement in the Middle East. Sykes-Picot is dead, and the middle east needs a new political settlement. Iraq and Syria will NEVER again be functional countries in their states. If anyone thinks that somehow the Sunnis and Shia in Iraq or the Sunnis and Alawates in Syria can ever again live together, they are just dreaming.The only long term solution is to divide both Iraq and Syria along sectarian lines (The countries are already divided by default anyway). I read an article recently, where people in Mosul, said they would rather be ruled by ISIL than the tulip govt in Baghdad. That's the degree of animosity that exsits out there between the groups and no amount of bombs dropped from the RAF are going to change that.

[PurpleGorilla]

Are you supporting Air strikes against "IS" in Syria ?

Dropping a few more bombs is going to solve absolutly nothing.

We need to understand, that the combined effects of the 'Arab Spring' and the Invasion of Iraq has been the complete collapse of the Post WW1 settlement in the Middle East. Sykes-Picot is dead, and the middle east needs a new political settlement. Iraq and Syria will NEVER again be functional countries in their states. If anyone thinks that somehow the Sunnis and Shia in Iraq or the Sunnis and Alawates in Syria can ever again live together, they are just dreaming.The only long term solution is to divide both Iraq and Syria along sectarian lines (The countries are already divided by default anyway). I read an article recently, where people in Mosul, said they would rather be ruled by ISIL than the tulip govt in Baghdad. That's the degree of animosity that exsits out there between the groups and no amount of bombs dropped from the RAF are going to change that.

This has ultimately been the solution for Yugoslavia.

[fullyautomatix]

This has ultimately been the solution for Yugoslavia.

And Sudan and India/Pakistan etc etc. The list is endless. Religious intolerance is the cause of much misery on this planet.

[vetran]

Unfortunately I think sirja is right.

Its all a basket case, we need to do the same as we did in India and split it, then spend a few decades watching them threaten to kill each others before they decide they really need to live in Bradford.

As Xoggy said the alternative is watching a state form that hates westerners so much WW3 will ensue.

Bombing them back to the stone age may have to be a step towards a modern day partition.

[PurpleGorilla]

And Sudan and India/Pakistan etc etc. The list is endless. Religious intolerance is the cause of much misery on this planet.

It's called tribalism.

Without the rule of law, electricity, food and clean drinking water; we are all savages.

[xoggoth]

Given all the conflicts that are caused when people of very different views live side by side it amazes me that people think multi-culturalism is a good idea. Positive nationalism, where we work with the realities of human nature, where everyone, as far as possible, lives among like-minded people with proper control over the direction of their own societies, would work much better.

Idealism is the world's biggest problem, not religion.

[PurpleGorilla]

Are you supporting Air strikes against "IS" in Syria ?

One of the reasons the Roman Empire was so strong is that it embraced multiculturalism, within certain boundaries and rules of law.

I see no difference in the multicultural west today. Live in peace, respect the law, be united for a common purpose.

But when factions just have hate against one another, and see violence (going beyond the law) as legitimate, they can Foxtrot Oscar.

[xoggoth]

One of the reasons the Roman Empire was so strong is that it embraced multiculturalism

You make it sound like a modern democracy, it was hardly that.

Authoritarian regimes do prevent conflicts, Yugoslavia within the USSR, the Ottoman empire, Saddam Hussein in Iraq and many others. Once you give people real freedom to shape their own societies that's when the problems start.

Look at the realities of modern Europe, where much of the terrorism - separatist groups mainly, nearly all of the major riots, so much gang crime, comes from.

[PurpleGorilla]

Are you supporting Air strikes against "IS" in Syria ?

Look at the realities of modern Europe, where much of the terrorism - separatist groups mainly, nearly all of the major riots, so much gang crime, comes from.

I think this is because of a lack of shared goals, aspirations, attitudes, desires. If you want to live in the West; Egalite Fraternite Liberte. I'm all for that.

The west is liberal, free, and full of vices. It's not perfect, but it is reasonably safe and people are generally happy and content. This is juxtaposed to illiberal values which manifest in extremism.

My concern is the quest to a soft middle ground PC state that doesn't offend anyone results in the traditional liberal west giving ground, and losing their freedoms.

National service, if you are not in work or education, we will find you a role to make a positive contribution. Migrants, refugees, ethnic minorities, druggies, gang members, jihadists. Come break a sweat digging a flower bed for an old lady, carry the shopping of a war widow. Fill the pot holes for the drivers going to work to pay the taxes that look after you.