Kicking Off in Paris Again

[fullyautomatix]

The people who do the dirty work don't need to have intellect, or think long term. They're just foot soldiers carrying out the orders of the small group at the top of the hierarchy; it's that leadership that have an overarching philosophy. This is how every military organisation in the world is.

Surely it's obvious that IS didn't get where it is being led by a bunch of ignorant clodhopping oafs.

I am not arguing against the theory, I actually think its a clever idea but cannot attribute it to a bunch of guerrilla warfare animals. I am not quite sure if them targeting western countries is more to do with radicalizing young men or just mindless slaughter to gain headlines. I think the latter.

[NickFitz]

No, more like run by senior members of Saddam Hussain's Ba'ath Party.

Exactly. This is why they're so dangerously effective, and those who dismiss them as a pack of stupid unenlightened oafs rather than an army commanded by a group of very clever, ruthless people are seriously underestimating the threat they pose.

[NickFitz]

No, more like run by senior members of Saddam Hussain's Ba'ath Party.

Exactly. This is why they're so dangerously effective, and those who dismiss them as a pack of stupid unenlightened oafs rather than an army commanded by a group of very clever, ruthless people are seriously underestimating the threat they pose.

Oh, and that's also why it's not really about Islam. These people are fundamentally political animals, seeking power, wealth, and status. The religious component is just a way of conning the knuckle-draggers into doing their dirty work, and provides a convenient smokescreen.

[PurpleGorilla]

Some. 40% of a country that holds 1% of the Muslims in the world means 0.4%. Even if you add all those figures up and divide by the number of countries, the result is 13.5% - but many of the world's Muslims don't live in the countries for which figures are given, so even that is too high, and it's still lower than her "15% to 25%". This is basic arithmetic.

So that data (and clearly there is other data out there) adds up to 13.5% pro suicide bombers using your maths. That's quite high? No?

[NickFitz]

So that data (and clearly there is other data out there) adds up to 13.5% pro suicide bombers using your maths. That's quite high? No?

It also fails to include all Muslims in the world, so that figure must itself be far too high unless you assume that, for example, the Muslim community here in Leicester is heavily radicalised, which I can assure you it isn't.

If 13.5% of British and American Muslims were in favour of suicide bombing, our respective societies would currently be lying in rubble. The true figures, in both nations, are less than 1% as estimated by the intelligence agencies responsible for identifying these people and preventing them from carrying out attacks.

But maybe the intelligence agencies are just downplaying the problem to make their job a bit easier. That's the only way I can see that her "15% to 25%" can be correct rather than their "less than 1%".

[vetran]

If they weren't given the option of "never" then how could they say it? It's a poll; the respondents don't get to say anything, they get asked questions and have to shoehorn their responses to fit.

But basing your assertion on a poorly worded survey to prove a point is poor form. Even if you take rarely to equal never then a large number of Muslims (in the millions) are still willing to support it. I assume when they asked Osama this question he answered honestly?

[Platypus]

Oh, and that's also why it's not really about Islam. These people are fundamentally political animals, seeking power, wealth, and status. The religious component is just a way of conning the knuckle-draggers into doing their dirty work, and provides a convenient smokescreen.

Wellll .....
What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

[NickFitz]

But basing your assertion on a poorly worded survey to prove a point is poor form. Even if you take rarely to equal never then a large number of Muslims (in the millions) are still willing to support it. I assume when they asked Osama this question he answered honestly?

I was pointing out that the survey, which was used by the person in that video to argue that 25% of Muslims worldwide are extremists, was flawed. I hold no brief for the validity of the survey, and all I was saying was that even if it is accepted at face value, it doesn't say what people are claiming it says.

[PurpleGorilla]

It also fails to include all Muslims in the world, so that figure must itself be far too high unless you assume that, for example, the Muslim community here in Leicester is heavily radicalised, which I can assure you it isn't.

If 13.5% of British and American Muslims were in favour of suicide bombing, our respective societies would currently be lying in rubble. The true figures, in both nations, are less than 1% as estimated by the intelligence agencies responsible for identifying these people and preventing them from carrying out attacks.

But maybe the intelligence agencies are just downplaying the problem to make their job a bit easier. That's the only way I can see that her "15% to 25%" can be correct rather than their "less than 1%".

Why not cross check!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...rorist_attacks

[NickFitz]

Why not cross check!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...rorist_attacks

Not very many in the US or Britain, are there? Certainly not as many as you'd expect if 25% of the US's 2.7 million, or the UK's 2.7 million, were into suicide bombing. That would mean 675,000 potential suicide bombers in each country, or roughly the population of Sheffield. If that figure was valid, I don't see how the security services would be keeping on top of the situation. Even if we go for the lower figure of 15%, that would be over 400,000. That's getting on for the population of Cardiff, all willing to die in their efforts to destroy us. I'm surprised there's any of us still here