We should be apoplectic with rage about this

[DodgyAgent]

Since the story was first broken by the Times, important points have been made clear again and again.

1) Terrible crimes have been perpetrated against young women and girls.
2) The perpetrators are almost exclusively Pakistani men
3) These men viewed their victims as being fair game on the grounds that they were Western and white.
4) The authorities worked very hard, on stupid ideological grounds, to suppress the fact of 2)

I won't permit this discussion to cross the line into racism - under particular scrutiny will come any generalisations about Muslims or Pakistanis.

That's killed the thread

[TykeMerc]

Since the story was first broken by the Times, important points have been made clear again and again.

1) Terrible crimes have been perpetrated against young women and girls.
2) The perpetrators are almost exclusively Pakistani men
3) These men viewed their victims as being fair game on the grounds that they were Western and white.
4) The authorities worked very hard, on stupid ideological grounds, to suppress the fact of 2)

I won't permit this discussion to cross the line into racism - under particular scrutiny will come any generalisations about Muslims or Pakistanis.

What about widely understood cultural attitudes prevalent amongst a significant proportion of 2?

How can those attitudes even be mentioned without stepping into some type of racial stereotype ground that could easily be construed as racist by someone who wanted to?

[tractor]

Since the story was first broken by the Times, important points have been made clear again and again.

1) Terrible crimes have been perpetrated against young women and girls.
2) The perpetrators are almost exclusively Pakistani men
3) These men viewed their victims as being fair game on the grounds that they were Western and white.
4) The authorities worked very hard, on stupid ideological grounds, to suppress the fact of 2)

I won't permit this discussion to cross the line into racism - under particular scrutiny will come any generalisations about Muslims or Pakistanis.

Wasn't it this kind of PC scaremongering that allowed it to be brushed under the carpet or ignored for so long? It is not only Rotherham, it is Oxford and Manchester now too. Apparently perpetrated by the same demographic group. The age group is irrelevant, it seems that 17-60 is the broad sub group so it is hard not to generalise really.

[DodgyAgent]

It is not hard to choose the right wording "the perpetrators were all muslim" whereas if you say "all muslims are perpetrators" than that is not acceptable.

[FatLazyContractor]

I won't permit this discussion to cross the line into racism - under particular scrutiny will come any generalisations about Muslims or Pakistanis.

I, personally, don't think anyone on the thread is generalising. I agree, however, that one should never generalise anything based on the actions of a few.

Having said that, Political correctness is such a great tool that it can destroy any ideology (let alone a country!). My two cents ....

[minestrone]

Since the story was first broken by the Times, important points have been made clear again and again.

1) Terrible crimes have been perpetrated against young women and girls.
2) The perpetrators are almost exclusively Pakistani men
3) These men viewed their victims as being fair game on the grounds that they were Western and white.
4) The authorities worked very hard, on stupid ideological grounds, to suppress the fact of 2)

I won't permit this discussion to cross the line into racism - under particular scrutiny will come any generalisations about Muslims or Pakistanis.

I don't remember that line being taken when it was open season on the Catholic Church over paedophile.

But then maybe that is the point I think you miss, you can openly criticise and generalise western religions with western followers. Criticise the Pakistani community and you get called a racist, get raped by one of them and the police will ignore you. I have never seen Stephen Fry kick up a stink about honour killings.

[NotAllThere]

But then maybe that is the point I think you miss, you can openly criticise and generalise western religions with western followers. Criticise the Pakistani community and you get called a racist, get raped by one of them and the police will ignore you. I have never seen Stephen Fry kick up a stink about honour killings.

I haven't missed that point. I think you are correct and you have demonstrated that it's possible to discuss these things without crossing the line into racism.

The problem is that there are one or two posters who will use this thread to spout their vile creed of hate.

[xoggoth]

Said it before but the brushes are too broad. Can't stand Islam, it is backward irrational crap, but I don't think this is specifically a Muslim or even a Pakistani issue in general, rather a much narrower one about a specific culture within Pakistan.

Radicalisation is a problem but we don't seem to get this sort of grooming crime (as far as we know so far anyway) or that much crime of any sort among Pakistanis in the South East. No coincidence perhaps that the real problems are in the Midlands where most of Pakistani heritage are from Kashmir.

Asian grooming: why we need to talk about sex - Crime - UK - The Independent

If you look at white British culture it is not uniform, there is a big difference between those from wealthier places, especially in the South, and poorer ones like the Welsh valleys. Similarly, other nations are not monocultures.

All this talk about cultures of migrants would be academic if we had what we should have - proper rigorous assessment of individuals to ensure, not only that they are going to be high net contributors to the economy , but that they accept British values. Unfortunately, our governments will never do this. Asking would be citizens stuff about Jane Austen's novels is never going to weed out unsuitable applicants with poor potential and unacceptable attitudes.

http://i100.independent.co.uk/articl...nt--gJ0v-H6BQx

What a f* joke!

[NotAllThere]

I recall a Times article saying something like the majority of Pakistanis in the Midlands originate from two towns - so fairly mono-cultural.

[SimonMac]

Mohamed married a 12 year old, so it seems that Muslims regard children as fair game for sexual relationships. If we don like that we have to prosecute them or kick them out, preferably both.

You do realise a thousand years ago it was also common for Europeans to marry 12 year olds, Juliette was only 13 when she married Romeo!

Its a dumb argument which has not place in modern times