We should be apoplectic with rage about this

[Doggy Styles]

You do realise a thousand years ago it was also common for Europeans to marry 12 year olds, Juliette was only 13 when she married Romeo!

Its a dumb argument which has not place in modern times

12 is still the age of consent in Spain isn't it?

[NotAllThere]

You do realise a thousand years ago it was also common for Europeans to marry 12 year olds, Juliette was only 13 when she married Romeo!

Its a dumb argument which has not place in modern times

That's why he got banned. (KentPhilip, not Mohammed).

12 is still the age of consent in Spain isn't it?

Raised to 13 in 1999, now it's 16.

[mudskipper]

KP has a point in that some do (ab)use religion to justify their actions, either to themselves or the wider world, especially when it comes to the oppression and abuse of women.

I don't recall reading anything about that in this case, however an inherent belief that women are lesser citizens (and white girls are 'white trash') is very likely to have been an influence, and that can't be separated from the cultural (and religious) upbringing of the men involved.

[Lockhouse]

Back to the original point; Labour still won the PCC Election for South Yorkshire this week on an 80% postal vote. That's not turkeys voting for Christmas, that's culprits voting for a cover up.

I would be very interested to see the percentage split of those postal votes against the ones at the ballot box.

[Churchill]

KP has a point in that some do (ab)use religion to justify their actions, either to themselves or the wider world, especially when it comes to the oppression and abuse of women.

I don't recall reading anything about that in this case, however an inherent belief that women are lesser citizens (and white girls are 'white trash') is very likely to have been an influence, and that can't be separated from the cultural (and religious) upbringing of the men involved.

I think a few lessons for the girls about "self respect" wouldn't go amiss either. Did the girls really think that those nice Pakistani men were plying them with alcohol, drugs and cigarettes out of generosity?

There is no doubt in my mind that the girls were victims in all this and they may have been let down by "the system" - if they were never taught not to accept gifts from strangers then they should've been.

I now await the torrent of abuse after mentioning the elephant in the room.

[minestrone]

I think a few lessons for the girls about "self respect" wouldn't go amiss either. Did the girls really think that those nice Pakistani men were plying them with alcohol, drugs and cigarettes out of generosity?

There is no doubt in my mind that the girls were victims in all this and they may have been let down by "the system" - if they were never taught not to accept gifts from strangers then they should've been.

I now await the torrent of abuse after mentioning the elephant in the room.

Aye, a 13 year old was gagging for it, must have been the length of her skirt that gave it away. Deserves everything she got.

[mudskipper]

I think a few lessons for the girls about "self respect" wouldn't go amiss either. Did the girls really think that those nice Pakistani men were plying them with alcohol, drugs and cigarettes out of generosity?

There is no doubt in my mind that the girls were victims in all this and they may have been let down by "the system" - if they were never taught not to accept gifts from strangers then they should've been.

I now await the torrent of abuse after mentioning the elephant in the room.

They were vulnerable girls, many were in care, and no-one was looking out for them. These men befriended them, made them feel 'grown up' and then exploited them. Easy targets for grooming.

[BrilloPad]

They were vulnerable girls, many were in care, and no-one was looking out for them. These men befriended them, made them feel 'grown up' and then exploited them. Easy targets for grooming.

Agreed. And I still think those that did the grooming need castration. I am still unhappy that the police will not prosecute everyone guilty of downloading child porn.

[SueEllen]

They were vulnerable girls, many were in care, and no-one was looking out for them. These men befriended them, made them feel 'grown up' and then exploited them. Easy targets for grooming.

Why were they in care though?

A few of their parents have done interviews on TV and explained they put their daughters in care because they couldn't "control" them. Then when they found out what they were getting up to complained and got no where.

This is because "the system" doesn't look out for kids 11 and over. Teachers, youth workers and junior social workers who have tried to intervene and stop situations like this in their areas (and not all the abusers have been Pakistani) have been told that children who are in secondary school age make a "free choice" to do this.

Abuse like this has been going on in different areas for decades. This is one reason why the child abuse enquiry can't have anyone who endorses the existing establishment at it's head.

[BrilloPad]

Why were they in care though?

A few of their parents have done interviews on TV and explained they put their daughters in care because they couldn't "control" them. Then when they found out what they were getting up to complained and got no where.

This is because "the system" doesn't look out for kids 11 and over. Teachers, youth workers and junior social workers who have tried to intervene and stop situations like this in their areas (and not all the abusers have been Pakistani) have been told that children who are in secondary school age make a "free choice" to do this.

Abuse like this has been going on in different areas for decades. This is one reason why the child abuse enquiry can't have anyone who endorses the existing establishment at it's head.

I bet far more have no fathers.