Umbrella companies, IR35 and the Job Retention Scheme

[northernladuk]

I disagree. Although umbrella customers are technically ‘employed’ they aren’t in the true sense compared to the permanent employees they work alongside.

Even the umbrella companies don’t know how this is going to pan out at the moment so what hope has anyone using their services got!

This person was just asking to get some reassurance as I’m sure we’d all like. If it can’t be given then people should just scroll past.


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This is a site for professionals turning over 100s of K a year. Its not mumsnet.

Sometimes a bit of tough love gives people kick up the bum to step up.

[Lance]

Agreed but someone not getting whether or not they are employed or not when they are via an umbrella needs a sharp word. Just ridiculous to not understand what they are. This is their job and lively hood. To not know is bordering on incompetence.

Is a lively hood where you go to party with gangsters?

[cojak]

I have moved this thread so any flaming in this thread stops now.

[TazCaz]

Jeez, do people actually read what they write?

Do you really think you can be both self-employed and have an employer for the same contract?

HINT: you are not self employed. If you lose your contract due to Covid-19 and can somehow get your Umbrella to "furlough" you, then you might have a chance of claiming under the Covid-19 Job Retention scheme, but this is all still too new and unknown territory until more clarity is provided. You should be pushing your Umbrella for an answer.

As for apologising "if this is being discussed elsewhere" - stop being so lazy and disingenuous. The same question has been asked across these boards at least 5 times already.

Let's not forget that now is the time to be kind, Paralytic. Hope your week gets better

[Beany]

This is a site for professionals turning over 100s of K a year. Its not mumsnet.

Sometimes a bit of tough love gives people kick up the bum to step up.

Not a member of mumsnet haven’t got time I’m too busy earning a modest living.

What is obvious though is that earning ‘100s of K a year’ and good manners don’t necessarily go hand in hand.

I say again play nice! There are a lot of very worried people about at the moment.


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[Wombat14]

Sorry if this aspect is already being discussed anywhere, but does anyone have a plausible theory about whether a benched LtdCo contractor, operating inside IR35 for most of the last three years, might be eligible for something? I'm guessing not, but I'm curious about how salary would be calculated in that situation, given that it fluctuates even within IR35. Current salary (£0)? Average over X years?

[GhostofTarbera]

Sorry if this aspect is already being discussed anywhere, but does anyone have a plausible theory about whether a benched LtdCo contractor, operating inside IR35 for most of the last three years, might be eligible for something? I'm guessing not, but I'm curious about how salary would be calculated in that situation, given that it fluctuates even within IR35. Current salary (£0)? Average over X years?

Yes

You get nothing


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[DaveB]

Sorry if this aspect is already being discussed anywhere, but does anyone have a plausible theory about whether a benched LtdCo contractor, operating inside IR35 for most of the last three years, might be eligible for something? I'm guessing not, but I'm curious about how salary would be calculated in that situation, given that it fluctuates even within IR35. Current salary (£0)? Average over X years?

Ltd Co. Contractors on salary and divi's are specifically excluded.

The earnings limit is £50,000 per year for genuinely self employed. Earn over that and you get nothing.

For those working via a brolly, the best you can expect is 80% of minimum wage, given that brollys normally pay that + "bonuses" based on your billable income and the employee support is based on salary.

[Wombat14]

Sorry, I explained myself poorly. According to the treasury, via the Guardian:

"I’m registered as a personal service company – but it’s just me. Do I apply for help as an employee, or as self-employed?

The Treasury said: “Those who pay themselves a salary and dividends through their own company are not covered by the scheme but will be covered for their salary by the coronavirus job retention scheme if they are operating PAYE schemes.”"

So, I:

1) Own a limited company of which I'm the only employee. I am not self-employed.
2) Operate a PAYE scheme.
3) Was caught inside IR35 from autumn 2016 to autumn 2019. So no dividends, and a decent salary that varied over the months according to how much I billed the client.
4) Am therefore, if the quote above and my understanding are correct, eligible to claim 80% of my salary through the coronavirus job retention scheme.

That seems to make sense to me. What I don't know is how the salary is defined. This is obviously straightforward for most employees, cos it's defined in your contract, but IR35 makes things more complicated. The way it worked in practice is that I paid myself a monthly salary of £5k (split between me and HMRC), which caused excess funds to accumulate in the LtdCo bank account. Periodically (typically every six or twelve months) InTouch would work out how that accumulation should be distributed between me and HMRC, and the appropriate amounts would be bunged on top of that month's salary and tax payments.

So, if it's correct that 80% of my salary is covered by the coronavirus job retention scheme, it would be interesting to know how I or HMRC determine what my salary actually is. I should add that it's very possible that I'm over-thinking this, and that the answer may well be £0.

[northernladuk]

When we're you benched?