Past AWR Concerns & Now Negative References

[pauly]

Had posted up previously.

Appreciated the past constructive comments.

Essentially:
- Was in a ltd co contract for a year with a large finacial based company
- New manager came in and hired permies to replace the contractors
- Tried to apply for permie roles and got blown off by the new manager
- Was worked out the company with the contract ending

Past details are here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...gulations.html


Anycase:
- Had on-going chats with the HR VP over the prevailing months
- The Director invited me for a chat and encouraged my application for new roles
- Had a subsquent chat about the new roles with the internal recruiter
- Two immediate contract opportunities where available and permie stuff
- One of the contract roles was exactly the same role I had done previously
- Tarted up the CV and got it submitted to the recruiter asap


Sounds Positive at this stage....but wait for it:
- I was also in touch with an internal colleague
- They now worked in the recruiting group and encouraged my submission
- They took it upon themselves to ask the previous manager for an informal reference
- They got an earful of negativity and could have communicated it back
- I sent a confidential email to the recruitment contact concerned about internal feedback
- Then got an email from the manager stating I should only have contact with the recruiter and not with staff


Sure enough, couple of weeks later was informed that my applications had been unsuccessful by the recruiter.

Very p*ssed that the Director is encouraging me to apply for roles and the Manager is scuppering the applications through negative internal references.

Really wanted to work at the company and on three occasions this new manager has screwed up the opportunities (once with the permie role and twice with the new contract roles).

I have wrote to the Director with my concern over internal commentary from his manager conflicting with his kind support. Looks like he has sent it back over to HR to respond as he may feel exposed.

Prefer not to be flamed by this group for putting my eggs in one basket. Very naffed-off that a rouge manager can mess-up the chance of taking some super roles that I would be very qualified for.

Do I have any recourse? Feel that the new manager has taken an instant disliking to me and done what ever they can to stop me coming back into the company and being successful.

[kingcook]

Do I have any recourse?

Find a different permie job? I'm not quite sure what advice you're hoping for. Complaining that some company doesn't like you and therefore won't offer you a permie job is a bit of a waste of everyone's time.

They don't want you. Move on.

[northernladuk]

Nope. Let it go and move on. You are a contractor.

[BolshieBastard]

Had posted up previously.

Appreciated the past constructive comments.

Essentially:
- Was in a ltd co contract for a year with a large finacial based company
- New manager came in and hired permies to replace the contractors
- Tried to apply for permie roles and got blown off by the new manager
- Was worked out the company with the contract ending

Past details are here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...gulations.html


Anycase:
- Had on-going chats with the HR VP over the prevailing months
- The Director invited me for a chat and encouraged my application for new roles
- Had a subsquent chat about the new roles with the internal recruiter
- Two immediate contract opportunities where available and permie stuff
- One of the contract roles was exactly the same role I had done previously
- Tarted up the CV and got it submitted to the recruiter asap


Sounds Positive at this stage....but wait for it:
- I was also in touch with an internal colleague
- They now worked in the recruiting group and encouraged my submission
- They took it upon themselves to ask the previous manager for an informal reference
- They got an earful of negativity and could have communicated it back
- I sent a confidential email to the recruitment contact concerned about internal feedback
- Then got an email from the manager stating I should only have contact with the recruiter and not with staff


Sure enough, couple of weeks later was informed that my applications had been unsuccessful by the recruiter.

Very p*ssed that the Director is encouraging me to apply for roles and the Manager is scuppering the applications through negative internal references.

Really wanted to work at the company and on three occasions this new manager has screwed up the opportunities (once with the permie role and twice with the new contract roles).

I have wrote to the Director with my concern over internal commentary from his manager conflicting with his kind support. Looks like he has sent it back over to HR to respond as he may feel exposed.

Prefer not to be flamed by this group for putting my eggs in one basket. Very naffed-off that a rouge manager can mess-up the chance of taking some super roles that I would be very qualified for.

Do I have any recourse? Feel that the new manager has taken an instant disliking to me and done what ever they can to stop me coming back into the company and being successful.

I can see why they (rightly) binned you off. Too much trouble!

Nope. Let it go and move on. You are a contractor.

Nope and I think this is the first time you've got it wrong. I dont think he \ she is cut out for contracting and looks like they'd just be a hassle for any client..

[pauly]

Find a different permie job? I'm not quite sure what advice you're hoping for. Complaining that some company doesn't like you and therefore won't offer you a permie job is a bit of a waste of everyone's time.

Your right. Sounds like one great big moan, doesn't it? Only thing is, if I just move on, someone else is probably going to be subject to the same crap of the same manager.

They don't want you. Move on.

The "they" is one manager and my gut is saying its discrimination. For some reason, they have taken an instant disliking and it has cost heavily. I think this sort of stuff should be rooted out or confronted - there is much legislation attempting to do it. Just unsure as a Ltd contractor I have any protection or redress under the laws or via a tribunal??

[NotAllThere]

If you have proof of him impugning your character, then sue for slander. If it was in writing then sue for libel. Otherwise, move on and forget it.

[bobspud]

Hi,
There is a really good reason that references are down to the very bare bones these days as in yep he worked here from x to y, and we never sacked him. That is because the UK liable and slander rules are so strong.

You might be better off looking else where for a better job.

[socialworker]

Your right. Sounds like one great big moan, doesn't it? Only thing is, if I just move on, someone else is probably going to be subject to the same crap of the same manager.



The "they" is one manager and my gut is saying its discrimination. For some reason, they have taken an instant disliking and it has cost heavily. I think this sort of stuff should be rooted out or confronted - there is much legislation attempting to do it. Just unsure as a Ltd contractor I have any protection or redress under the laws or via a tribunal??

I am going to be a bit more sympathetic here and say I know how it feels to be slandered by a manager and pushed out - it was done to me and the choice was fight it or walk away.

If you fight it, it will absorb huge amounts of your energy at a time when you need to be making a resh start to your career. It risks dragging you down and making you feel negative and angry all the time which will not only affect your personal relationships and possibly your health, but any hint of negativity when interviewing will come over and put you in the reject pile. Also I would forget any fantasies about teaching this guy a lesson, he is obviously believed by his own managers and you, ex temp, whinging about him wont make a blind bit of difference. Just acquire a belief in karma and hope he gets his comeuppance one day.

I take it you are still pretty young so I would think about moving on and learn what you can so you dont get in this position again. In my case I did this, I still wonder if I should have fought as I had a lot more at stake in my late fifties - I lost a secure management salary and a public sector pension. However though I now work harder than ever I am happier, my marriage is better and various health problems have disappeared.

[pauly]

If you have proof of him impugning your character, then sue for slander. If it was in writing then sue for libel. Otherwise, move on and forget it.

Already looking for the new gig. Just weighing my options at the moment...

1. Slander or other Civil Legal Options
I only have a txt from the internal colleague saying that internal feedback was negative and thus unlikley for a re-hire to occur (got this txt at the time the Director is encouraging me to apply for new roles?). The internal colleague might be willing to be a witness (unlikely, but can ask). However I am unsure if there are any time limitations of taking such slander/civil litigation actions and what the risk/benefit profile would look like?

2. Employment Tribunal Option
If I feel that the manager has discriminated based on a protective characteristic, I guess I could go down the Tribunal route and file with them within 3 months of the incident occurring (very tight deadlines).

The process is here:
http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u...s/t420-eng.pdf

The form would be here:
http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...oyment/ET1.pdf

No idea if this process works for Ltd contractors (and if AWR regs has change that?) also no idea what realistically the cost/benefit would be? - as I assume the burden of proof would be on me and the company would have clever solicitors. I would not have to pay for the costs of the respondent and therefore it could be low risk if I represent myself.

3. ACAS Mediation
An alternative may be ACAS and setting up a mediation session with the clientco to avoid Tribunals. Might be able to get some kind of compensation for having my time wasted if the clientco was never intending to re-hire.



Will probably get flammed for not acting like a contractor - however wanted to understand if anyone else taken some of these actions and if there are any alternative options?

[bless 'em all]

No idea if this process works for Ltd contractors (and if AWR regs has change that?) also no idea what realistically the cost/benefit would be? - as I assume the burden of proof would be on me and the company would have clever solicitors. I would not have to pay for the costs of the respondent and therefore it could be low risk if I represent myself.

Represent yourself? They'd tear you a new one.

Besides, if there was negative 'feedback' given INTERNALLY, and probably verbally, how can you prove it? I seriously doubt your 'contact' is going to back you up.

Will probably get flammed for not acting like a contractor - however wanted to understand if anyone else taken some of these actions and if there are any alternative options?

I wouldn't dream of any of these actions. A contractor is as disposable as a paper cup if the mood takes 'em.

The alternative is to forget it, move on and get the next gig.