Veritas-IT - unpaid invoices.....

[cojak]

I guess we shouldn't send in our timesheets from last week.

You guessed right - hold all timesheets and pass to the new agency. If you do send them in the client will be obliged to pay V-IT who in turn won't feel obliged to pass money-owed onto you...

[funkyd]

You guessed right - hold all timesheets and pass to the new agency. If you do send them in the client will be obliged to pay V-IT who in turn won't feel obliged to pass money-owed onto you...

Will the new agency have any legal hold over us or the client? If neither of us signs anything then we are not bound to them? I guess the new agency is buying the contracts from Veritas so legally they would be binding. Does that not mean they are responsible for the debts as well?

At the end of the day this is how we understand things:

If we want out then we have to go elsewhere for work. No matter how we try and cut it either the client or us will be in breach of contract with Veritas

What none of us wants is to work another day without being paid but as both sides have to give a months notice does that mean we have to work for the client and not get paid until the new agency gets in touch?

Some of us are in a right mess at the moment. Fear of getting sued by the client and of course the huge financial loss and the impact that is having. We have worked out that between us Veritas owes us about 100K.

[zoomit]

timesheets

do any of you have timesheets in the online timesheet system vertitas used

[funkyd]

do any of you have timesheets in the online timesheet system vertitas used

Not us - annoyingly all our timesheets have been sumitted and billed to the client who has paid everything.


Tomorrow is going to be a very difficult day.

[bigD]

Unpaid invoices from Veritas IT

I'm one of those contractors owing about 6 weeks money from Veritas.

This is my understanding/action:-

1 - Veritas have broken the contract with me as Veritas have failed to pay me. Therefore my contract is null and void with them.

2 - Do not send any invoices and especially any time-sheets to Veritas. These should be able to be picked up by another agency or by the client if you can direct. Obviously, this will need to be agreed by your client. You'll probably find that if Veritas haven't paid you then the contract between your client and Veritas is null and void, but check with your client.

3 - Chase any unpaid debt with the use of a solicitor - 'Thomas Higgins and Co' are cheap and very good - (just in case the company doesn't go into liquidation). There has been no official announcement of liquidation so you may be in luck. Once in liquidation it's too late.

4 - This has happened to me more than once and clients still expect us to use agencies and have respect for them!!

5 - Cross your fingers and hope something good will happen.

[cojak]

Blimey you guys are cynical!

We're a small specialist agency and we do valid business. We're taking on recrutiers so I may be able to assist some of the Veritas staff. They don't get paid pots and probably have families/mortgages. Its not their fault the ship sank.

I did offer to assist peeps jump ship but strongly advised them to take advice first. We can get peoples invoices paid pretty damn quick. Now tell how this is a bad thing?

As I said, I spent 15 years as a contractor and was around when the PCG was setup so I know what people are going through.

I've no problem with you Candela, but people need to be aware and not lurch from one disaster to the next.

[funkyd]

I've no problem with you Candela, but people need to be aware and not lurch from one disaster to the next.

Indeed. I think we have to wait a little and see what happens.

We could end up in a situation like P4 where they start to pay some monies and continue trading. If that is the case, then if people want to they can terminate their contracts in the proper way and move to a new agent.

Bottom line is nobody should be making snap decisions and signing anything with any other agent until they have heard from the Veritas administrators.

I'm a bit weary of jumping ship and assuming that Veritas wont pursue anyone who does or try to enforce the handcuff sections in both the client and contractors contracts.

Agreed?

[WindyAnna]

From my experience with the Futuro administration here's my view ...

1 - Veritas have broken the contract with me as Veritas have failed to pay me. Therefore my contract is null and void with them.

No, your contract isn't null and void, they have failed to meet payment terms which is slightly different. You can argue that they are in breach BUT you have to prove that legally and you would be expected to prove that repeated attempts to receive payment have failed - which won't be the case until such time as administration (if it is administration ratehr than liquidation) is concluded. If it's liquidation you are probably covered in that your contract will have a clause stating that it is void in that circumstance but only from the point of going into liquidation not for any retrospective timesheets. Believe me the administrators will be after getting EVERY penny that they can and if that means legally challenging your right to declare the contract void / fail to put in timesheets or attempt to timesheet elsewhere then they will. Their responsibility is either rescue as going concern or get as much money for the creditors as they can - and believe me having been through this 4 times now they absolutely will make it very difficult for you and will get nasty.

What actually matters is your clients contract with Veritas. your client is legally obliged to pay Veritas for any time you have worked for them up to the point that they sever their contract with VIT. If they are naive enough to agree to pay retrospective timesheets through another agency or direct then hurrah for you - but I doubt they'll do it without legal advice and legal advice will tell them they have to pay Veritas - and if you don't submit timesheets then the administrators may go to your client and can legally request records to be pulled to prove whether you worked (login records etc.) most clients are not really up for this.

The administrators will see your contract as an asset and will be after selling it if they can rather than just letting it go by default.

2 - Do not send any invoices and especially any time-sheets to Veritas. These should be able to be picked up by another agency or by the client if you can direct. Obviously, this will need to be agreed by your client. You'll probably find that if Veritas haven't paid you then the contract between your client and Veritas is null and void, but check with your client.

See above, another agency cannot pick up retrospective timesheets and your client will need to be up for the nasty fight which rthe administrators will happily attempt (did on Futuro, are now getting nasty on P4, were horrendous on MCCL a few years ago). The new agency will need to be up for the fight too - be wary of any agency who says they are - they are just after the asset that is your contract, in the week after Futuro went bust I was contacted by about 15 agencies - all "happy to pick things up" but the contact was from agents - once their commercial and legal teams got hold of it they all backed off.

Very unlikely that the contract between client and agency mentions payments to you - only the payment terms between them, checked the contracts with 7 different agencies we use and none of them mention payments to the contractor although there is a clause if the agency goes bust in all of them. I can't see how they could enforce payment terms between two otehr companies (the agency and your Ltd/Umbrella).

[QUOTE=bigD;306407]

3 - Chase any unpaid debt with the use of a solicitor - 'Thomas Higgins and Co' are cheap and very good - (just in case the company doesn't go into liquidation). There has been no official announcement of liquidation so you may be in luck. Once in liquidation it's too late.

Administration protects the company from legal challenge. you will need to provide proof of debt to the administrators and be added to the long list - behind secured creditors, employees, HMRC.

4 - This has happened to me more than once and clients still expect us to use agencies and have respect for them!!

5 - Cross your fingers and hope something good will happen

There are lots of reasons clients like to use agencies but I don't think any of them expect you to respect them!

I've got my fingers crossed for all of you, I sincerely hope Veritas were in better shape than Futuro were. I would take your own legal advice and, as funkyd says, don't rush into anything that could prejudice your situation.

Good luck

Windy

[funkyd]

Windy:

You say you've been through this four times before. Did you have to work for the client effectivly for free until either the agency was wound up?

Can everyone, clients and contractors not just serve notice to Veritas and move on after the 4 weeks or whatever are up?

Now that Veritas are in administration do the administrators draw a line at that point and then continue to pay people for services as normal while they try to sort the debts?

I'm really struggling to see why, if they can't pay me I am obliged to work for them and effectivly bail them out. It's not as if the directors are suffering in any way - they're probably sat at home, feet up, working out how to screw another bunch of contractors.

I just can't work anohter 4 weeks or so not being paid - we're talking another 10K that I will lose on top of the large amount they already owe me.

What about winding up my company - they can't come after me if it doesn't exist can they? Then I can go direct and do what I like - just like the directors of Verits...

[cojak]

Thanks Anna,

I will defer to you on this as you've been through it - I'll save this v. useful advice.