MoD Security Clearance

[gingerjedi]

To get SC clearance without Gov experience is possible.

Of course it is, I got mine from working at an Airbus/BAE site in 2002 and I had it renewed last year at a GE aviation site.

I don't know what the fuss is about? SC doesn't help much these days as my rate took a dive when EDS dumped 1000's of cleared people on the market, saying that I expect a sharp increase when they all expire after 12 months.

[pzz76077]

Of course it is, I got mine from working at an Airbus/BAE site in 2002 and I had it renewed last year at a GE aviation site.

I don't know what the fuss is about? SC doesn't help much these days as my rate took a dive when EDS dumped 1000's of cleared people on the market, saying that I expect a sharp increase when they all expire after 12 months.

Sounds like you have worked on Gov contracts & that counts as Gov experience in my book.

My PP requires no prior work experience of any kind to get SC clearance.

PZZ

[SuperZ]

I got mine when I said I had experience working in prisons. While nicked I cooked breaky for the prison wardens and got a little money for it tooo.

Lunchtimes I used to offer to poor water on their pot noodles also.

[Incognito]

I agree with one of the previous posters. Isn't it amazing that you only hear this type of wailing about lack of clearances when the job market goes tits up.

It's a sector, it's up to them if they want to require previous experience. I would not expect to get into the banking sector because I don't know the first thing about banking and regulatory controls, just like someone who's never stepped foot on a MOD project won't know the first thing about JSP 440/480 and numerous others, InfoSec standards, HMG MPS, CTAS panels, Common Criteria evaluation and EAL assurance, dealing with CESG, etc, etc.

Oh and it doesn't cost £600 to SC clear someone Mal, you're talking out your harris. And just because someone gets put forward for clearance doesn't automatically mean you'll get it, why should a project at risk put someone forward to get cleared when there is no assurance they'll get it when they can wait a month and pick someone up on the market with prior clearance.

And don't come out with that 30 days line, the DVA is stretched to bursting and it's not just IT clearances they deal with. All new recruits to the forces, security guards, admin staff, etc, etc go through the DVA and working on a project where we are clearing a whole lot of people, I'm well aware of how long it really is taking and we're talking months to gain SC. We've got one guy who has been waiting 9 months for a review to come through.

The government sector isn't a closed shop, but don't for one minute think that your 10 years commercial experience means your perfect for a role when you have 0 years government project experience.

[malvolio]

Ermm, bollocks..

I've been driving the clearance campaign since 2003. I wrote the white paper that got the rules clarified about three years ago. I'm now pushing for those rules to be adhered to by the recruitment businesses and the prime contractors: oddly enough the ministries all follow the rules, but they don't do much direct recruiting these days.

I do understand (and have read) JSP440 and the related documents. In there it talks about risk assessments when using uncleared staff pending clearance, which is what the prime contractors are conspicuously failing to do. If they did, the whole problem would go away tomorrow.

I've been cleared to SC three tiems in 10 years. How stupid is that?

My skills - programme management and Service Delivery - are industry neutral. I'm relaxed about not working in a regulated environment like banking or pharma , since that is a purely commercial operation, much as I think it wrong. I'm not relaxed about being closed off from 40% of the available work that my taxes are paying from for no good reason.

SC costs around £600 the first time around, and DV around £10k.

You can get clearance to SC in 10 days if you have to. The DVA might be overstretched, although they claim they aren't, but they should try running a first-in-first-out queue rather than the preferential one they run now.

And finally, the Cabinet Office agrees with my viewpoint on the problems, the causes and the effects.

HTH

[Mr.Whippy]

I'm well aware of how long it really is taking and we're talking months to gain SC. We've got one guy who has been waiting 9 months for a review to come through.

9 months? I know someone who got DV in less than half that at the start of this year. 9 months is madness.

[SuperZ]

Malvio, so are you finding it difficult to get on a cleared contract despite being cleared three times already in the past 10 years?

I understand your view but there many out there who just want an easy jump into the public sector and complaining because of the SC hurdle. I have the same complaint about banking/financial services but I don`t see people banging on about not able to get into those sectors due to everyone wanting "prior recent experience". I have insurance experience working with Zurich FS but what did an agent tell me when a while later I applied for another position with ZuruchFS working on mortgages? "Sorry, you`re not suitable, I can`t put you forward, you don`t have mortgage experience" - duh. As if that really matters!

I get the feeling pubby sector contracting will not be the place to be soon anyway. Will be quite funny if it`s possible for everyone to be considered for cleared jobs only for the rates to become extra low with public sector contracts few and far between.

It may only be £600 (although I heard it was £7000 for SC from a reliable source) but many might fail which makes it more expensive. Despite everything I`ve read, I personally still don`t see much issue with the way things are currently, other than if those who have held recent clearance that has expired not being considered for positions, that would be a different matter.

If it helps your disapproval, I know that there are a few pubby sector clents that do hire on skills etc and not on having SC clearance or prior government experience. The agencies also don`t request SC clearance for the roles either. However, a friend applied for a position who has SC only to be told he wasn`t suitable because he didn`t have experience of some crappy little tool that he could actually learn in about 30mins anywya! Flip side to the coin, they`re just stupid .
When agencies do mention the SC requirement, it is of course because the client requests it. Some years ago I was SC cleared for a position by an organisation, but now they request current SC clearance because their is now a much larger pool of candidates already with SC to chose from, not the case back in 2004

On another note, I now know of a client requesting SC clearance AND must be British born also

I feel things will never change that much on this, just as the "previous experience" will always apply to other sectors also. Having SC clearance means someone has worked on government related projects preiovulsy, likely to be trustworthy, and likely to know and accept the way the civvie service works (slowly - ha ha)

Finally, some private sector orgs won`t touch pubby sector workers either!

[Advocate]

To get SC clearance without Gov experience is possible.

You just need to pass this course and you get automatic SC clearance as long as you meet the other qualifying criteria regarding nationality, being a good citizen etc:-

http://www.cesg.gov.uk/products_serv...clas/why.shtml

The only catch - there is a 2 year waiting list!

The plus is that you gain an accreditation that is worth a grand a day!

PZZ

Big hairy ones to the 2 year waiting list...there isn't!

[swamp]

Some of the public sector roles you see are just re-tendering exercises. Sorry to piss on your fire, but you aren't ever going to get them because they already have someone and they cannot renew their contract without re-tendering the role. It's about government procurement 'rules'.

So the "SC preferred" is just a candidate filter. They really want to filter to zero, with the help of some obscure minor 'skills' as well.

[Incognito]

I've been driving the clearance campaign since 2003. I wrote the white paper that got the rules clarified about three years ago.

No, you wrote a skewed viewpoint that centres on the outside looking in.

oddly enough the ministries all follow the rules, but they don't do much direct recruiting these days.

Oh really, have you applied for a role at one of the London agencies recently, they're recruiting quite heavily, What's that no DV? Sorry, not interested.

I do understand (and have read) JSP440 and the related documents. In there it talks about risk assessments when using uncleared staff pending clearance, which is what the prime contractors are conspicuously failing to do. If they did, the whole problem would go away tomorrow.

You are full of crap, you know nothing about 440 if this is the kind of rubbish you're spouting. You may have knowledge of the MPS (cabinet office guidelines), but 440 clearly states it doesn't have to follow the MPS if it deems it neccessary. What it does state is that you need SC for unescorted access at MOD main buildings,
contractors' employees must not be engaged on MOD contracts until the appropriate clearance is received and it is for the MOD to indicate whether there are any security objections to an individual performing, for a limited time, the duty for which the access is required. Also, DV will not be granted for projects of 12 months or less. That is your guidance which the prime contractors are working to in defence and security.

Practice and handling of clearances are also very clearly defined for MOD personnel, List X employees and non List X employees. All are different.

I've been cleared to SC three tiems in 10 years. How stupid is that?

You really don't get the whole concept of clearance do you? It's designed primarily to exclude or restrict access to protectively marked information or material by persons whose loyalty, reliability or trustworthiness may be in doubt. Just because you have gained the clearance once, does not deem you trustworty for life.

My skills - programme management and Service Delivery - are industry neutral. I'm relaxed about not working in a regulated environment like banking or pharma , since that is a purely commercial operation, much as I think it wrong. I'm not relaxed about being closed off from 40% of the available work that my taxes are paying from for no good reason.

I'd disagree that your skills are industry neutral. Managing an implemenation for Toys r Us is a bit different to managing a program putting 5000 desktops out in the middle of Iraq with a conflict going on.

You can get clearance to SC in 10 days if you have to. The DVA might be overstretched, although they claim they aren't, but they should try running a first-in-first-out queue rather than the preferential one they run now.

You were the one that brought up risk analysis. Which do you deem more important, the new MI5 Asian grad needed to interpret intercepted mobile calls or Malvolio who is coming in to manage a tech refresh for some NT4 backup system in a small MOd outpost somewhere.

And finally, the Cabinet Office agrees with my viewpoint on the problems, the causes and the effects.

HTH

And finally, to quote official government policy:

"In the context of personnel security, although every consideration must be given to safeguarding the rights of individuals, in the final analysis, the security of the State must outweigh all other considerations."

HTH