Five months into role and wrong contract was provided at outset - no one noticed.

**hobnob** · 2 May 2024, 19:07

I had a similar situation with an NHS contract: I started out working through an umbrella, then got the "outside" SDS later. So, I switched over at that point, i.e. I contacted the agency and arranged for them to pay my limited company rather than the umbrella. That wasn't retrospective, i.e. it didn't affect the tax I'd already paid, but I got a P45 from the umbrella company for my SATR.

You mentioned that your limited company is dormant. What exactly does that mean? (There's a specific definition, but people often say "dormant" when they mean "not trading".) Does the company have insurance etc? If you're confident about the extension then it makes sense to switch over, but if you're not sure then it might be better to stay with the umbrella for now.

**northernladuk** · 3 May 2024, 08:56

After nearly 7 months out, I finally got a new gig with the NHS that was declared "inside" so I took it. I asked for the SDS on starting but it never arrived. Not wanting rock the boat as I was desperate for some income I just sucked it up, signed with the Umbrella Co and put the Ltd into dormancy.

Well look on the bright side. You'll not make that mistake again so you've learned something.

Provision of the SDS is a legal responsibility so always get an SDS. We've said it endlessly.

**PerfectStorm** · 5 May 2024, 13:19

You should've known that non-provision of the SDS before the first payment means that the decision... er... either defaults back to you or becomes outside anyway, I think?

**northernladuk** · 5 May 2024, 14:18

Originally posted by PerfectStorm View Post

You should've known that non-provision of the SDS before the first payment means that the decision... er... either defaults back to you or becomes outside anyway, I think?

You think lack of SDS means it's outside?

**jamesbrown** · 5 May 2024, 17:46

Originally posted by PerfectStorm View Post

You should've known that non-provision of the SDS before the first payment means that the decision... er... either defaults back to you or becomes outside anyway, I think?

Oh dear.

**Wobblyheed** · 5 June 2024, 12:25

Update: Had my contract extended for a few more months, so brought up the contract with the agent and the fact that it was an outside contract. Also that no SDS has been provided. They basically played dumb, saying the determination was made by the NHS for every contractor working on the project and that was how it worked. If I didn't want to accept that, then I could leave. Nice.

**b0redom** · 5 June 2024, 14:28

Originally posted by Wobblyheed View Post

1. I hadn't actually signed the contract (it was signed by what looks like NHS and Umbrella personnel) and 2. The contract is an "outside" contract, all about right to substitute, no mutuality, etc. Your bog standard "outside" contract.

What can/would you do? Kick off and demand all the tax back I have paid? Wait till renewal at the end of this month and query it? Nothing - be grateful for an extension.

1. That's the way it always works with an inside gig. The contract exists between the umbrella and the client. You're an employee of the umbrella.

2. There's nothing you can do about tax you've already paid.

3. Regardless of what the contract says, wrt substitute, MoO etc, the client can say that they won't engage with outside IR35 consultants. If that's the case you can either suck it up or walk away. They don't *have* to do a SDS.

**Lance** · 10 June 2024, 10:52

a contract can be worded to sound like outside but still be inside. That's kind been HMRC's view for over 20 years.
So OP is inside and has accepted those terms.

Five months into role and wrong contract was provided at outset - no one noticed.