Liz Truss &IR35

[Protagoras]

It won't be overturned or changed. It's actually been quite a success and has done what it needed to, so it'd be stupid to change things..

Yep, objectives achieved including

• Created more opportunities for consultancies
• Reduced competition for overseas outsourcers
• Forced workers into unregulated umbrella companies to be pursued later

[TestMangler]

Well, predictions for the Treasury team are Kwarteng, JRM and John Redwood. If reform doesn’t happen under them, it will probably never happen. Hint: it will probably never happen. I hope to be shocked

JRM and Redwood ? You're expecting reform under them ? Are you expecting reform that's going to be of benefit of anyone other than hedge fund managers and CEOs of multinationals ?

[malvolio]

JRM and Redwood ? You're expecting reform under them ? Are you expecting reform that's going to be of benefit of anyone other than hedge fund managers and CEOs of multinationals ?

Otherwise known as wealth creators and work providers....?

[jamesbrown]

JRM and Redwood ? You're expecting reform under them ? Are you expecting reform that's going to be of benefit of anyone other than hedge fund managers and CEOs of multinationals ?

Are you struggling with your reading comprehension? The words "it will probably never happen" should be read as "no, I am not expecting reform under them". But they're well known for being critical of the reforms and IR35 in general, unlike the vast majority of MPs.

[malvolio]

It won't be overturned or changed. It's actually been quite a success and has done what it needed to, so it'd be stupid to change things.

I hope it doesn't as well because it's really thinned the herd of permietractors.

I see Fred Kite is alive and well...

[eek]

Well yes, I totally agree that it's NICs gone walkies, but it's still money that isn't owed, It's been created by preventing a valuable section of the workforce operating in a tax efficient manner. And that has been permissible for a very long time, including gaining approval in Parliament by the chancellor of the day.

Come to that I paid ErNICs, EeNICs and PAYE throughout my freelance career - no more than I had to, but still generated more tax than my permie co-workers every year (and not counting VAT, which is a little more debateable).

I know IR35 isn't going away, and I fully understand its history and the reasons why (better than most, I suspect, after 20-odd years of campaigning), but that doesn't make it right or defensible. It is a bad law, sloppily framed and created for the wrong reasons by HMT selling an idea to an incompetent Chancellor, having failed to get it past various previous incumbents.

If Truss turns out to be Maggie Mk 2 and drives through a sudden lurch back to core small-c conservative economic policy then there may be a chance. But I'm not betting anything on that happening.

You are looking at the wrong issue as you are looking at it from the viewpoint of an expensive IT contractor.

Look at the tax lost from lorry drivers being forced to use limited companies and you see a very different and politically explosive situation..

I will repeat the conversation I continually have - it contractors are not the target of IR35 we are acceptable collateral damage…

[SussexSeagull]

As long as HMT is listening to HMRC's totally wrong impact assessments, and HMT itself sticks to the "you're an employer or an employee" mantra, nothing tis going to change.

The £70bn that Eek is on about doesn't actually exist. It's the difference between the tax owed by genuine independents and the tax owed by those businesses being taxed as employees. Nevertheless, it is ingrained in HMT's figures, and HMG are too undereducated to challenge it.

Don't ever assume a politician is intelligent and well-informed and capable of making rational decisions. They aren't.

I would certainly never assume that about Liz Truss.

[TheGreenBastard]

I hope it doesn't as well because it's really thinned the herd of permietractors.

I'm seeing the same, for me it's paid dividends, for the flocks of bum on seat contractors that used to fill big corps I've seen a lot turn perm.

[PerfectStorm]

Reminds me of when my old work's CEO said he'd "look at" putting in some pay rises after a bumper year.

There's no real incentive to do so, but I'd be delighted to be wrong.

[malvolio]

You are looking at the wrong issue as you are looking at it from the viewpoint of an expensive IT contractor.

Look at the tax lost from lorry drivers being forced to use limited companies and you see a very different and politically explosive situation..

I will repeat the conversation I continually have - it contractors are not the target of IR35 we are acceptable collateral damage…

OK. But there is a certain irony in that IR35 sprung out of a court case involving a few hundred owner-driver lorry drivers...