Hybrid versus 100% remote working

[northernladuk]

I'm actively looking for hybrid home/office roles. Sitting on my own all day gets boring after a while, I would actually welcome seeing colleagues 2 days a week. 2 days is a good balance I think, and also as most offices hot desk you can avoid getting stuck sitting next to someone you do not like, as sometimes happened in the old days of full time office attendance! If you work with a decent bunch of folk, it can be fun to come into town and have lunch or beers too. So many anti-social people nowadays, I think they need to get over it and learn to enjoy each others company again.

I'm exactly the same. Of the 7 or so roles i've been looking at in the past three weeks only one has been pure remote and I actually didn't fancy that over the hybrid offerings of the other. Even a long trip in to London for the day was more attractive than pure WFH.

[TheDude]

I don't see why. I only live 40 miles from work (the City), albeit a 80-90 min door to door commute each way, and it's probably only cheap by inner London standards, but I work almost entirely remotely, at London rates, in the financial sector. The fact I'm not sitting in the office every day doesn't diminish the level of technical and domain expertise and experience I can bring to the role, so I can still compete in ability against anyone who happens to live 10 mins walk away. If the client has a rigid presenteeism attitude I'll just work elsewhere, since plenty of companies are far more flexible.

I live about 40 miles from The City as well and as you know it costs a premium to live in such a location.

I am referring to those who live in cheap parts of the country, travel long distances and possibly stay a couple of nights as well.

[northernladuk]

I live about 40 miles from The City as well and as you know it costs a premium to live in such a location.

I am referring to those who live in cheap parts of the country, travel long distances and possibly stay a couple of nights as well.

Im in Manchester and would have been quite happy to take some on the London ones on offer. A couple were one day, with one two dayer which I'd have to think about as it was inside. Would depend on the quality of the gig but a couple of months travelling to London for a day certainly put London back on my radar where I wouldn't have touched anything down there pre covid.

[Bluenose]

Im in Manchester and would have been quite happy to take some on the London ones on offer. A couple were one day, with one two dayer which I'd have to think about as it was inside. Would depend on the quality of the gig but a couple of months travelling to London for a day certainly put London back on my radar where I wouldn't have touched anything down there pre covid.

The CEO of Avanti has been removed now but just after Covid a return ticket to London from Manc. was 325 quid. As a result many went 'Nope' to two days in London. The other thing was that premier inn at London Euston were charging 180 quid a night during the week. No joke when inside IR35.

[northernladuk]

The CEO of Avanti has been removed now but just after Covid a return ticket to London from Manc. was 325 quid. As a result many went 'Nope' to two days in London. The other thing was that premier inn at London Euston were charging 180 quid a night during the week. No joke when inside IR35.

Going down on a Tuesday evening and returning after 6 on Wednesday is only £103 but that would incurr a hotel stay as well as tubes etc. For the right gig that was interesting and add some value I would have been happy to do that.

[PerfectStorm]

All the decent contractors I know are fully remote and Outside. Bum-on-seattractors are taking Inside work and being told to come in multiple days a week by their manager and dragging everyone down with them.

The ability to call your own shots is a useful test.

[eek]

All the decent contractors I know are fully remote and Outside. Bum-on-seattractors are taking Inside work and being told to come in multiple days a week by their manager and dragging everyone down with them.

The ability to call your own shots is a useful test.

Utter bollox - I took an inside contract because it was 100% at home and way more interesting than the other options I had....

You have to remember that some business sectors (banking, oil) are now 100% inside because currently it's the least risky option for their business model...

Also there is zero chance of the end client / HMRC coming along and saying you were inside all the time pay up.... Chapter 10 IR35 really doesn't work the way most contractors think it does and may be a very nasty surprise if / when HMRC start having "chats".

[northernladuk]

All the decent contractors I know are fully remote and Outside. Bum-on-seattractors are taking Inside work and being told to come in multiple days a week by their manager and dragging everyone down with them.

The ability to call your own shots is a useful test.

I'll add my utter bollocks as well as the three outside roles I'm currently disucssion all have hybrid working and the one I'm after has the worst option of the lot with three days on site.

I consider myself a decent contractor but am fully expecting to take an inside gig as something like 8 vs 3 have been inside. Some of the inside roles have been big interesting pieces of work as well. The client's attitude to risk has nothing to do with the actual type of work.

In the old days you could argue inside roles were the pits of the job market but not now. All the finance and Gov work is inside because of the legislation but the roles are exactly the same as the old days.

[Paracelsus]

I'm not totally against hybrid, but it's got to be done properly and supported by evidence. A permie friend of mine has mandatory 2 days a week in the office, but there is no attempt made to schedule this for any collaboration. Usually he goes in and is alone on a bank of desks, if he's lucky there's someone from his team to talk to, otherwise it's just a bunch of random people from different teams who hardly communicate for BAU. Total box-ticking exercise. And management are now bumping that to 3 days in the office.

Of course, none of this was ever justified with any KPIs etc. They have the data, but have chosen not to either look at or share it, presumably because it doesn't support their actions or they don't care. His job is very much a sort of processing drone type where there is almost zero need for collaboration anyway.

I've read lots of articles on WFH, usually some sort of management bleating about it, but strangely never seen any data put forward in these articles. If I worked for a company that provided evidence that tickets closed/commits made per person per week is down say 20% since pre-covid etc, I would have to simply accept that and suck it up. Otherwise they can jog on.

[northernladuk]

I'm not totally against hybrid, but it's got to be done properly and supported by evidence. A permie friend of mine has mandatory 2 days a week in the office, but there is no attempt made to schedule this for any collaboration. Usually he goes in and is alone on a bank of desks, if he's lucky there's someone from his team to talk to, otherwise it's just a bunch of random people from different teams who hardly communicate for BAU. Total box-ticking exercise. And management are now bumping that to 3 days in the office.

Agree with that an also seen that at my last client. My actual team had set days but there wasn't any overarching mandate leaving individuals sitting alone.

Of course, none of this was ever justified with any KPIs etc. They have the data, but have chosen not to either look at or share it, presumably because it doesn't support their actions or they don't care. His job is very much a sort of processing drone type where there is almost zero need for collaboration anyway.

I've read lots of articles on WFH, usually some sort of management bleating about it, but strangely never seen any data put forward in these articles. If I worked for a company that provided evidence that tickets closed/commits made per person per week is down say 20% since pre-covid etc, I would have to simply accept that and suck it up. Otherwise they can jog on.

Tough one to answer that though. It will vary between different types of jobs, levels of seniority, an individuals approach to work, that individuals feelings towards their employer and also the type of home they live in. Can't even do a simple survey because the people answering are going to be biased towards homeworking for benefits. I do know chatting to other people in my last gig a lot of them secretly agreed they could get more done in the office without interruption and access to other people face to face. I'm a big believer of it as well as it being important in my role (IMO).

You really don't need evidence that vast swathes of people in lower level admin type roles are doing less for example. How many and percentage I don't know but they are there. It was hard enough to get a full day out of some people in the PS clients I've seen when they were in the office so undeniable they are working less at home. Many of these people will also not have an office set up so working in less than favourable conditions in a small house with possibly multiple people working from home. Easy for us at our level to have an opinion on it and not consider the broad spectrum of people in a business. Must be tough for the businesses to do make the right decision that suits all.