• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.

How much do agents take?

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Originally posted by gazelle View Post
    I'm going through this right now.

    First inside contract.

    There is a reason why these agents are called Pimps - as that is exactly what they are - the scummy ones that think they have a right to screw you over. The good ones are transparent and say there are on a fixed margin and often tell you as such 8-10%.

    This particular agent said the max they could offer was £450, when I tried to push for £500 (- ideally, I was after £550), he said he would if he could, but that's the max the client is willing to offer.

    My options were either to reject and keep looking - you don't know when or if you would find a better contract - I thought it is better to have some money coming in rather than nothing.

    Soon after starting, I found out client is paying agency £550 - so agency are making £100 per day for doing diddly squat.
    My view is that they should just get paid a lump sum - how can it possibly be justified they can take a proportion of each hour/day you work.

    The whole recruitment industry is rife with exploitation - have heard so many stories of workers being ripped off, financially exploited across all sectors - think it's especially rife in the lower paid sectors

    The agency cut should be completely transparent or at the very least a separate fixed margin. Otherwise it just leads to bitterness and resentment as well as low morale. Also, if this is how little they value you, then why should give your best to the end client or even help them improve. You'll just do the bare minimum.

    The agency only putting forward contractors that agree to their low rate, so even though there could be higher calibre contractors, but because they don't play ball with the agency's low rate, the client doesn't get to interview them and thus get the best value for the money they are giving to the agent.

    Client obviously wants to have the highest calibre contractor for the money they are paying. Whereas the agency is interested in maximising profit foremost and will overlook higher calibre contractors. Conflict of interest ensues.

    I won't name this current agency, but I've since looked at this agency's track record and they have been derided on here and even on glassdoor by former employees.

    In my case, I've now found a contract paying £550 with fixed margin. I will be emailing the client and not mincing my words as to what I think of the agency they have hired and giving my reasons as to why I'm handing in my notice. Suffice to say the client will not be best pleased with someone leaving mid-way through a project and then having to go through the process of hiring someone else.

    These greedy agents have a very myopic view.
    Exactly this. Such a pointless industry. Clients probably just don't realise that for the amount of money they pay to agencies they could have funded their own recruitment process.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by cannon999 View Post

      Exactly this. Such a pointless industry. Clients probably just don't realise that for the amount of money they pay to agencies they could have funded their own recruitment process.
      And a lot of firms do - however, contract recruitment requires finding someone asap, which means most clients will end up using the firms that have the contacts of existing people who are immediately available
      Last edited by eek; 6 November 2021, 18:56.
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by vwdan View Post

        I still feel like you're exaggerating the disconnect between the two. Yes, there's a legal one and it's absolutely critical for a contractor to remember it. But you're talking about agencies more like one would talk about a professional services company.

        It's not that they manage your budget, it's that there's clearly a very close relationship between contractor and client. If it was all delegated to the agent then they'd be interviewing me and the first time I was introduced to a client would be the day they start.

        But its not, we have a chat about rate, I go and speak to the client and an offer is made. If I push back, then that may well and often does prompt the agent to go back to the client and give them the choice to either pay more or lose me, or call my bluff.

        Last client I had had a clear dashboard with all of the agency contractor submissions outlining contractor rate, and margin. I'm sure that's far from unique.

        They're an intermediary and I think it's unusual to see them as the product. Especially contrasted to, say, a professional services company supplying resources.

        I appreciate your experience and I'm not disputing it, it's just not really my experience or at least how I would phrase it. But my world is quite special and I'm probably a but more ad hoc and headhunted than most, so I do sincerely accept that my experiences may not be indicative of rank and file programmer or whatever
        I can see both sides of it. It's right to trot this one out as an education to the new guys that don't know so they understand exactly what the process is. Like many points of pedantry, like being employed and all that, it can give clarrity in certain situations if you understand it properly. The contract chain is often understood with loads of people talking about giving notice to the client and not the agent etc. So knowing exactly who's money is whos and how it's distributed is key.

        That said in the general humdrum of day to day contracting these points aren't that important. We don't bother about employment (or not) status of a contractor or the chain of contract for 99% of the time and just get on with it. So I think it's right to know but also not to get hung up on and continue to negotiate as usual etc.
        'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

        Comment


          #34
          another reason why clients use agencies are procurement rules.

          If a client hiring manager can only direct award a maximum of say £25k, then for a 3 month contract (assumed value of £30k) he's either going to need to go to tender (months to get someone started), or use an agency that has already passed the criteria and he can just get a PO for £30k to the agency.

          Most of the people who bash agencies have not got a clue how businesses actually work.
          See You Next Tuesday

          Comment


            #35
            I'm glad IR35 came in and reduced the contracting market significantly to weed out a lot of frauds.

            In all my years of contracting I had never met a bunch of miserly, cynical and entitled bunch of people as I did most contractors I encountered. I could automatically discount the intelligence of anyone who said "why should an agency make profit every day from me" and give them a wide berth. Unfortunately these people were everywhere.

            Back on topic; I'm with Hays on an Outside contract at the moment and they've been great and only take a pitiful 5% margin. Some people would probably try and complain that that's too much...

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by ensignia View Post
              Back on topic; I'm with Hays on an Outside contract at the moment and they've been great and only take a pitiful 5% margin. Some people would probably try and complain that that's too much...
              Back on topic. (a) You get 95% of what Hays have agreed with the client what they think the role is worth, (b) Hays get a miserly 5% because they have a lot of contractors on their books and have set up a long term commercial deal with their client from which you are benefitting and (c) regardless of their margin you wouldn't have got any more anyway, and probably rather less.

              Or haven't you been paying attention?
              Blog? What blog...?

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Lance View Post
                another reason why clients use agencies are procurement rules.

                If a client hiring manager can only direct award a maximum of say £25k, then for a 3 month contract (assumed value of £30k) he's either going to need to go to tender (months to get someone started), or use an agency that has already passed the criteria and he can just get a PO for £30k to the agency.

                Most of the people who bash agencies have not got a clue how businesses actually work.
                Also worth remembering that many many companies do not let the hiring manager run the hiring process, that goes off to either Human Remains or an external resource provider. That is to prevent them hiring their mates at ludicrous rates (although it hasn't occurred to HR that it also prevents them hiring people they know to be good, or not hiring people they know not to be good).
                Blog? What blog...?

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by malvolio View Post
                  Back on topic. (a) You get 95% of what Hays have agreed with the client what they think the role is worth, (b) Hays get a miserly 5% because they have a lot of contractors on their books and have set up a long term commercial deal with their client from which you are benefitting and (c) regardless of their margin you wouldn't have got any more anyway, and probably rather less.

                  Or haven't you been paying attention?
                  Sorry, what point are you trying to make here?

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by malvolio View Post
                    .... to prevent them hiring their mates at ludicrous rates.....
                    the worst example I've ever seen of this is actually in the public sector (not going to say where) DESPITE procurement rules and HR.
                    See You Next Tuesday

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by ensignia View Post

                      Sorry, what point are you trying to make here?
                      That your point is ridiculous?
                      Blog? What blog...?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X