Agency kicking up a fuss over notice period

[sira]

I'm in an Inside IR35 gig, with 4 weeks notice (but client only has to give me 2 weeks notice). I found another gig, paying a rate which is 3x higher but client wants me to start in two weeks. I accepted the new clients offer.

I've been working for the current client for 4 months and have had no days off and worked my socks off. So today, I informed my manager of the resignation and said I would be working 2 weeks and also taking 2 weeks annual leave as I hadn't taken any time off etc. Didnt receive a response from the manager, but got an ear full from the agency who said to me "You are going to work for the full 4 weeks." I politely reiterated that I'm only able to do 2 weeks due to annual leave, but they kept sending aggressive emails, literally saying I have no choice. Anyways my new agency just said it happens all the time, just ignore it because they cant deny you time off.

Just wanted to know if the agency/client can do anything? I dont think they can do much, but wanted to double check. For context, its a crappy low paid gig in banking that I took only because of Covid so I can't forsee them taking any sort of legal action, but you never know.

[northernladuk]

I'm in an Inside IR35 gig, with 4 weeks notice (but client only has to give me 2 weeks notice). I found another gig, paying a rate which is 3x higher but client wants me to start in two weeks. I accepted the new clients offer.

I've been working for the current client for 4 months and have had no days off and worked my socks off. So today, I informed my manager of the resignation and said I would be working 2 weeks and also taking 2 weeks annual leave as I hadn't taken any time off etc. Didnt receive a response from the manager, but got an ear full from the agency who said to me "You are going to work for the full 4 weeks." I politely reiterated that I'm only able to do 2 weeks due to annual leave, but they kept sending aggressive emails, literally saying I have no choice. Anyways my new agency just said it happens all the time, just ignore it because they cant deny you time off.

Just wanted to know if the agency/client can do anything? I dont think they can do much, but wanted to double check. For context, its a crappy low paid gig in banking that I took only because of Covid so I can't forsee them taking any sort of legal action, but you never know.

You aren't taking 2 weeks off, you are going to the new client so you are breaching your notice period. You can't just say it's a holiday and hope that is going to wash.

You are a contractor anyway, you don't take annual leave

They can sue you for blatant breach of notice. What is more likely to happen however is you can kiss any money you haven't been paid so far goodbye. They will withhold it in lieu of breach. It's not right as they should pay you and then sue you for breach but possetion is 9/10ths the law as they say. You are just as likely to take action against them as they are you.

You can't just go contract hopping and breaching notice thinking there will be no come back.

You should be able to push back on the new gig. If they've gone through all that effort to get you and you are the person for the job I would be surprised if a short delay is enough for them to go through the process again or pick the 2nd best guy. You have position power on them as they want you for the gig so I'd imagine they'd be OK with the wait if you pressed them.

[sira]

You aren't taking 2 weeks off, you are going to the new client so you are breaching your notice period. You can't just say it's a holiday and hope that is going to wash.

You are a contractor anyway, you don't take annual leave

They can sue you for blatant breach of notice. What is more likely to happen however is you can kiss any money you haven't been paid so far goodbye. They will withhold it in lieu of breach. It's not right as they should pay you and then sue you for breach but possetion is 9/10ths the law as they say. You are just as likely to take action against them as they are you.

You can't just go contract hopping and breaching notice thinking there will be no come back.

You should be able to push back on the new gig. If they've gone through all that effort to get you and you are the person for the job I would be surprised if a short delay is enough for them to go through the process again or pick the 2nd best guy. You have position power on them as they want you for the gig so I'd imagine they'd be OK with the wait if you pressed them.

First two paragraphs kinda contradict. Is there legislation that says employers can deny an employee time off? Also important to add context here. I had already made a holiday request which they denied. Not allowing an employee a single day off in 4 months, has to have some standing in court.

And if contractors don't take annual leave then, surely I can take time off whenever I want, without any notice?

If they dont sign-off my timesheet on Friday, then I wont turn up for work on the Monday and give it to a small claims court?

Cant push the new gig much more. They wanted 1 week originally, I negotiated 2 weeks. The rate is very high, so had to take it.

[Fraidycat]

Just wanted to know if the agency/client can do anything? I dont think they can do much, but wanted to double check. For context, its a crappy low paid gig in banking that I took only because of Covid so I can't forsee them taking any sort of legal action, but you never know.

You should have given full notice and then taken the last two weeks sicks. Told them you had delta/indian variant and have to self isolate.

[sira]

You should have given full notice and then taken the last two weeks sicks. Told them you had delta/indian variant and have to self isolate.

Seen as they're being very aggressive and denying me holiday, probably will have to get a sick note. Wouldnt pull the Covid card, as they could technically ask for confirmation that you have had a positive covid test and a doctors note. Getting a typical one for stress/burnout is much cleaner. Perks of Inside IR35.

Clients been dumping more work on me last few weeks as my line manager left (workloads more than doubled), and I've even told the new manager twice that the volumes are too high and im burnt out. His reply both times was "Thanks. Please get X done"

[Fraidycat]

Seen as they're being very aggressive and denying me holiday, probably will have to get a sick note. Wouldnt pull the Covid card, as they could technically ask for confirmation that you have had a positive covid test and a doctors note. Getting a typical one for stress/burnout is much cleaner. Perks of Inside IR35.

Yeah the sick card is always the preferable one to play.

I once naively took a week off at short notice, manager got really annoyed.

Had i taken the same time off by saying i was unwell i would probably have got some sympathy instead, the usual 'i hope you feel better soon' messages.

And to be honest the reason why took I took the time off was because i was overworked and stressed. I just didnt frame it as feeling unwell i just told them i needed to take time off.

[sira]

Yeah the sick card is always the preferable one to play.

I once naively took a week off at short notice, manager got really annoyed.

Had i taken the same time off sick i would probably have got some sympathy instead, the usual 'i hope you feel better soon' messages.

Absolutely, spot on. Trying to weave out of it seems to cause more issues. When you google sick note, you just get pages of private GP's willing to write you one straight away for £40 lol.

[ladymuck]

What does your contract say about holiday? Can you demand it or does it have to be requested and approved by the client? You seem to be claiming you're employed yet also a contractor and so seem to to be looking to cherry pick terms that suit your requirements.

[sira]

What does your contract say about holiday? Can you demand it or does it have to be requested and approved by the client? You seem to be claiming you're employed yet also a contractor and so seem to to be looking to cherry pick terms that suit your requirements.

Well, its a bit confusing actually. My contract with the agency just says I'm entitled to 20 days holiday and nothing else. It doesnt specify who I need ask for days off. Holiday pay is rolled into the rate.

To add confusion, in the contract with my umbrella there is wording on holidays, but its all standard brolly wording.

Which takes precedence? What am I supposed to be following?

[NotAllThere]

Not allowing an employee a single day off in 4 months, has to have some standing in court.

Nope. Not all all. Right, now consider this: There is a general principle that you can't force anyone to work. Employment law can't really enforce notice periods either - if as a permie you walk out, the employer can either

1. Continue to pay them for the notice period. If they take up another role during this time, the employer can sack them for gross misconduct, or continue paying.
or
2. Not pay them for the notice period. In which case the ex-employee is free and clear.

As a brolly employee things are more complex, but I can't see the agency getting any traction on suing you for breach. In any case, it's not worth their while; going to court is uncertain and expensive. If the new role pays 3x as much, then you'll make back any payments the agency doesn't make quite quickly. In the meantime you can pursue the debt through normal means.

It all depends on your risk appetite. Personally, I think the risk is low. And given that where you are is a toxic environment, calling in sick doesn't seem unreasonable.

TL;DR I'd go the new gig, take the flack, ignore hissy fits and chase the payment.

Other point: Normally when working through an agency, you're supposed to ask the agent for time off. In practice though, it's usually done through the hiring manager.