Reply to: Agency kicking up a fuss over notice period

[sira]

Clients been pretty relaxed about it, haven't received any pushback. They said they've a couple resources coming in, and asked me to handover my tasks to someone else. Haven't heard anything further from the agency either (yet). At worst, I guess they'll maybe withhold 1-2 weeks ages as compensation in which case I'm not bothered. I worked last week and this week in full, so they can take compensation if they wish to do so. I dont think they'll go much further than that due to my very low salary, but if they do I guess I'll just have to deal with it and pay any further compensation which arises. Given that they have resources to pick up my work, not much financial damage/losses have occurred to the client and the agency's margin is tiny (10%) and is literally peanuts on the dollar.

In parallel, I switched umbrella companies which took just 5 minutes. New brolly said its fine, if old P45 finish date and start of new gig date overlap. I'll be on monthly billing this time so wont be any tax or tax code issues hopefully. I never enjoy incorrect tax codes.

[northernladuk]

Pull a sickie. Umbrella company wont give a monkeys....
OR start with a different Umbrella....

You remember you were the first person on here to advocate taking a sickie to get out of notice don't you?

[PerfectStorm]

If you ever want to leave somewhere early, get client on side (preferably with a reasonable handover period of a week or so) and get client to tell agency. Don't "ask agency", it's not in their interest to participate. Their customer is the client.

Most clients are more agreeable than you'd think to working in this way, the alternative is paying a lot of money for someone who doesn't want to be there.

The only time I've gone to the agency to quit first was when my notice period was mercifully short (2 weeks) and at a client I hated so much I didn't even want the conversation with them. So just gritted teeth for 2 weeks and got out entirely above board.

[psychocandy]

Seen as they're being very aggressive and denying me holiday, probably will have to get a sick note. Wouldnt pull the Covid card, as they could technically ask for confirmation that you have had a positive covid test and a doctors note. Getting a typical one for stress/burnout is much cleaner. Perks of Inside IR35.

Clients been dumping more work on me last few weeks as my line manager left (workloads more than doubled), and I've even told the new manager twice that the volumes are too high and im burnt out. His reply both times was "Thanks. Please get X done"

Doctors note and proof of covid test - bugger that. You're a contractor.....
If a client asked me for either of these the answer would be "do one".

And why are expecting sympathy from a client. They dont care about you at all. You're just a resource.....

[psychocandy]

Thanks for your very helpful post. I only have two options: work only the 2 weeks and then not show up for work OR work 2 weeks and pull a sickie for the remaining 2 weeks. The issue with the latter is the umbrella company.

How can I give my umbrella company a 2 week sick notice and have them start me on a new assignment at the exact same time? The only way around it that I can see, is to change to a different umbrella company?

Pull a sickie. Umbrella company wont give a monkeys....
OR start with a different Umbrella....

[LondonManc]

Not everyone is lucky enough to keep working Outside IR35. In the area I work, there are no Outside IR35 gigs left, its as if every client has introduced a blanket ban. And now that agencies have sort of, worked out how IR35 works they dont seem to want to deal with Outside IR35 gigs anymore, in practice.

Sadly a lot of places don't understand IR35 and have been briefed badly by agencies and consultancies, both with a vested interest; the latter has an interest in convincing the client that outside contracts are bad because they can get their own people in.

Lets not beat about the bush, all of this is a function of Covid and IR35 changes. Terrible rates, erosion of worker rights, more power to clients and agencies, even worse practices from agencies, more interaction and admin with tulipty brollies. I've had several recruiters tell me just recently that a lot of contractors (in my space) have moved into permanent contracts, and that clients are finding it hard to find good contractors. Which is better for me I guess. I put my CV online on the Monday and had a job by Thursday. However experiences like this, make contracting far less appealing.

Worker rights? You're a contractor. You've never had any power. The fact you're still calling a contract a job is concerning (bloody hell, sounding too much like NLUK here!).
The client has the money, the agent gets a cut and you get your wedge. Until you're at a client proving how awesome and indispensable you are, you have no power.

I'm sure theres alot of people out there still stuck in what I call "Covid jobs" i.e. jobs they only took because of covid, and as the economy is improving now everyone will be jumping ship, left, right n centre. There will be more and more people breaching contracts to jump back into high quality jobs.

If you took a £40k job due to Covid and you land a pre-covid £80k job again and the client asks you to start in 2 weeks (and you have 4 weeks notice), im sure as hell sure that 99% of people will breach and take the slack. Especially if you have kids and a mortgage. These are once in a lifetime extenuating circumstances.

This is nonsense. The vast majority of people work their notice. On the perm side, notice periods are far more understood - typically 3 months on both sides for a 50k+ job. Employers accept this. Employees accept this. There are times when a compromise agreement kicks in but this is more often in the case of redundancy. Similarly if you're on notice because of redundancy, the employer will let you go early if you find something.

[sira]

Not everyone is lucky enough to keep working Outside IR35. In the area I work, there are no Outside IR35 gigs left, its as if every client has introduced a blanket ban. And now that agencies have sort of, worked out how IR35 works they dont seem to want to deal with Outside IR35 gigs anymore, in practice.

Lets not beat about the bush, all of this is a function of Covid and IR35 changes. Terrible rates, erosion of worker rights, more power to clients and agencies, even worse practices from agencies, more interaction and admin with tulipty brollies. I've had several recruiters tell me just recently that a lot of contractors (in my space) have moved into permanent contracts, and that clients are finding it hard to find good contractors. Which is better for me I guess. I put my CV online on the Monday and had a job by Thursday. However experiences like this, make contracting far less appealing.

I'm sure theres alot of people out there still stuck in what I call "Covid jobs" i.e. jobs they only took because of covid, and as the economy is improving now everyone will be jumping ship, left, right n centre. There will be more and more people breaching contracts to jump back into high quality jobs.

If you took a £40k job due to Covid and you land a pre-covid £80k job again and the client asks you to start in 2 weeks (and you have 4 weeks notice), im sure as hell sure that 99% of people will breach and take the slack. Especially if you have kids and a mortgage. These are once in a lifetime extenuating circumstances.

[LondonManc]

Kind of but in my mind that's also covered off by D&C so that's why I tend to see MoO as after the work but fair point.


Ah yes, correct. I didn't consider this because in my mind he's mid work on an inside gig so wasn't gonna be a factor. Useful point when wanting to leave a gig after the work has finished for sure.

Cheers. I think the OP is in an unfortunate position partly of their own making, but I similarly think we need to recognise that there is too much take from the client and agency in these sorts of situations, especially if the rate is a bit crap or the work is done. Imbalanced notice periods never sit well either - pay a proper rate and people won't want to jump ship; contractors accept that they're never going to be the most popular kid in class but they expect to be paid well for the privilege of being seen as a contracting scumbag.

[northernladuk]

MoO includes no obligation to accept work within the current dates of the existing contract too - "we're waiting for data imports for your project, could you just clear a couple of these support tickets for us while you're waiting" for example.

Kind of but in my mind that's also covered off by D&C so that's why I tend to see MoO as after the work but fair point.

The main reason I was asking about MoO (and to an extent, the statement of work, should one exist) is that if the OP has already completed the work set out at the start, then there's no reason for them to stay. If they've delivered everything (and assuming a handover is not a deliverable) then they could talk to the hiring manager suggesting that they could make themselves look good by emailing their boss and saying "this contractor I got in has completed the work early and has offered to leave early now it's done. It'll save us mucho dollars so in principle I'm happy to let them go now and tell the agency we're terminating with immediate effect. Is that okay with you?" There doesn't even need to be any MoO in place for this, just brownie points for the hiring boss for being proactive and saving money in times of cost-cutting focus.

Ah yes, correct. I didn't consider this because in my mind he's mid work on an inside gig so wasn't gonna be a factor. Useful point when wanting to leave a gig after the work has finished for sure.

[northernladuk]

If the shoe was on the other foot both the agency and client would get rid of you without a second thought and manage to diddle you out of your holidays too! Why 4 weeks for them, but only 2 for you? Perfect example of unfairness.

Working 2 weeks notice seems more than fair to me. Since you paint the client in a bad light, I would have probably quit on the spot, enjoyed two weeks to recharge my batteries and started the new gig nice and fresh and ready to impress.

What has fair got to do when it comes to business? Uneven terms can be explained by the client possibly having a need for the a new resource to be found and work handed over whcih could easily take four weeks. Minimising the time you are stuck with a contractor when you don't need them also makes sense so a reasonable sitaution. I don't see where fair comes in to the decision making process and business requirements.

Also what is fair to you will be totally different to what's fair for your client and as you are a supplier to your client you are in second place when it comes to fairness (if there is even such a thing as I mentioned).

Also it sounds like the client is OK him going early so the fairness of the length of termination isn't in question here. It's the agency being an arse over the contractual clauses which earns them money so they are sticking to it. Is it not 'unfair' that the OP signed a contract in good faith and is now breaching that causing direct loss to the agent?

[LondonManc]

That won't really work on three levels. Firstly MoO is work outside the current agreed piece of work i.e after the current contract ends. OP is currently in a contract that has obligations to do the work agreed. Not turning up comes or client not giving work currently comes under the T&M clause of his contract not MoO.

Secondly neither the client nor the agent will understand this and still argue the point regardless of this

Thirdly he's inside so very unlikely he's got anything like this in his contract.

The other parties aren't going to understand the finer points of the contract so unlikely any of that will work. Agent is losing money so they'll just push. All this will only be of any use if it came to court which it won't anyway.

MoO includes no obligation to accept work within the current dates of the existing contract too - "we're waiting for data imports for your project, could you just clear a couple of these support tickets for us while you're waiting" for example.

The main reason I was asking about MoO (and to an extent, the statement of work, should one exist) is that if the OP has already completed the work set out at the start, then there's no reason for them to stay. If they've delivered everything (and assuming a handover is not a deliverable) then they could talk to the hiring manager suggesting that they could make themselves look good by emailing their boss and saying "this contractor I got in has completed the work early and has offered to leave early now it's done. It'll save us mucho dollars so in principle I'm happy to let them go now and tell the agency we're terminating with immediate effect. Is that okay with you?" There doesn't even need to be any MoO in place for this, just brownie points for the hiring boss for being proactive and saving money in times of cost-cutting focus.

[Fraidycat]

He is never signing your last time sheets

I doubt it.

But if he doesn't sign the time sheet for days really worked, OP should tell him he will leave appropriate feedback on social media and job review boards (glassdoor, google review, twitter etc).

Middle managers are mostly spineless.
He will soon realise its more than his jobsworth to not sign your timesheet.

[escapeUK]

If the shoe was on the other foot both the agency and client would get rid of you without a second thought and manage to diddle you out of your holidays too! Why 4 weeks for them, but only 2 for you? Perfect example of unfairness.

Working 2 weeks notice seems more than fair to me. Since you paint the client in a bad light, I would have probably quit on the spot, enjoyed two weeks to recharge my batteries and started the new gig nice and fresh and ready to impress.

[northernladuk]

There could be one more easy out for you - have you checked your contract for a mutuality of obligation clause?

That won't really work on three levels. Firstly MoO is work outside the current agreed piece of work i.e after the current contract ends. OP is currently in a contract that has obligations to do the work agreed. Not turning up comes or client not giving work currently comes under the T&M clause of his contract not MoO.

Secondly neither the client nor the agent will understand this and still argue the point regardless of this

Thirdly he's inside so very unlikely he's got anything like this in his contract.

The other parties aren't going to understand the finer points of the contract so unlikely any of that will work. Agent is losing money so they'll just push. All this will only be of any use if it came to court which it won't anyway.

[LondonManc]

There's nothing alone those lines. My contract is a bare bones 1 pager.

Are any deliverables stated in the contract? Or have they left it so inside IR35 that you're an undisguised perm?